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Experimental Motor/Generator Build

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  • Experimental Motor/Generator Build

    This thread is for the motor/generator build that a group of us are working on. We see the motor function and generator function as being 2 separate optimized parts for their specific use. We don't see any system performing both functions well at the same time. The Ferris Wheel appears to be of this configuration with the center coils and magnets being the driving electromagnetic motor and the large wheel the generator. We are going to have a motor section and separate generator section on a common shaft.

    The basis for this design and how it would work - We don't see any proof that a standard Bedini type machine can produce much usable power on it's own and never real time. By usable power we mean that after 8 years we don’t see any one off grid powering a house or a car with them. We do see that they can produce extremely high amounts of torque. We want to take advantage of it's high torque to run a conventional generator unless we can come up with a better generator.

    A description of the motor section.
    I created and album for this build titled machine concepts. There are 2 cad file models in it now. To get higher torque we would put many single wound coils in a large diameter circle of 24" to 36 inches. Also to get higher torque the coils have been turned so that rotors would be on each end of them. Each rotor would have opposite polarity magnets that would be at both ends of the coils at the same time. Hopefully this would double the power. Only single wound coils as we don't care about its power output only that is self runs by battery swapping. Switching will be done by separate very small coils that can be moved for precision timing. There will be one switching coil for every electromagnet coil. We are going to add a choke to the circuit to slow down the switching time to give more time for the electromagnets to apply force to the rotor magnets. The generator would be the main power source. In the model the yellow parts are 16 coil spoils with no wires showing. The green parts are coil mounting plates. The 2 purple discs are the rotors connected to the shaft and spin in unison with the generator. The blue discs on the rotors are magnets and presently 16 on each disc. Only one set of magnets can be seen in this view. The aqua box is a standard generator taken from a gas powered generator. We have 30K feet of many different sizes of wire due in any time now. We are going to do testing with different wire sizes, number of wraps and types of cores including black sand epoxy mix. We also need to find out how close coils can be to each other. We will also test types and strengths of magnets.

    A description of the generator section. The generator model is finally loaded here and in my album. Now to figure out how to get them to the bottom of the post. The basic version of the up-loader works great.


    The generator section is controlled by the equation (Velocity of rotor x length of wire x strength of field x sin of theta = EMF). We have a generator concept in progress. We want a DC generator with no commutator so we have a large barrel shaped rotor with long rows of magnets on it. On the inside of the generator case will be many long narrow coils. Coils that have thicker wire and fewer wraps to keep the Lenz affect down. Long coils for the given equation. We want a large magnet to coils interface area. The large diameter of the rotor will keep the velocity up without going to high RPM'S. That also keeps the path of magnets more linear. Because of that we eliminate (x the sin of theta) in the given equation. We don't want many magnets interfacing many coils at the same time to keep power surges down. We don't know if this can be done with all the same magnet poles facing out. We think the coils will be wired together in some way to keep the CEMF moving forward. Bob Smith in post 185 of the erfinder thread asks some very good questions on how to connect them and the possible results.

    If this generator doesn't work then we will use a conventional one. The system will be over unity by the amount of power created by the generator (example a 10 KW generator). We will have real time power not just limited to charging batteries.

    This project is full open sourcing. It was inspired by Peter Lindeman's Lockridge Device DVD
    Last edited by Radiantnrg; 08-19-2014, 05:51 PM. Reason: remove attacthments

  • #2
    Originally posted by Radiantnrg View Post
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]3647[/ATTACH]
    The system will be over unity by the amount of power created by the generator (example a 10 KW generator). We will have real time power not just limited to charging batteries.
    Don't you mean the system will be over unity by the amount of energy produced by the generator - the amount of energy consumed by the motor or motor function?

    Comment


    • #3
      OrthoParameter, The motor section will be over-unity by some amount on its own. We really don't care by how much just that it is so we don't have to make an electrical connection between the motor and generator. The main electrical output will come from the generator and by far outweigh the electrical out put of the motor section by many thousands of times. Our initial goal is 3KW to 10KW @ 110volts. I hope that makes more sense. I need to be more careful how I use the terms power, torque, energy, and electrical output.

      Comment


      • #4
        Update 1: The large quantity of magnetic wire we ordered is late on arrival. This week I am going to start making the wood panels that will hold all of the coils. I will start looking for clear plastic for the twin magnet rotors. I have been recommend/refereed to a very large body of info to read for research. That will take a while to go over and discuss with other team members.

        Update 2: A 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" plywood was delivered to me tonight so I cut out 2 blanks for the coil mounting panels. It's my guess now that tomorrow I can post pictures of the finished coil holder assembly with no coils in it. And we are going to make the experimental generator in the model. I added a new model in my album that shows the 2 magnet rotors as being transparent for more clarity and replacing the standard generator with the experimental one.
        Last edited by Radiantnrg; 08-25-2014, 01:02 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Tonight we did some testing of coils and for not knowing what people already know here, I am stating what we found out. We had 4 microwave magnets on a 16 inch bike wheel and one small coil with a welding rod core. We pulsed the coil with a 12v car battery. We could keep the wheel spinning both by having the end of the coil or the side of the coil towards the magnets. On the scope it was producing smooth DC current by the magnets along the side but smooth AC current when along the end.

          Update: What we thought was DC may have been single wave AC. Some of us are members of the Idaho Inventors Association. We may be doing a presentation at our October monthly meeting on this build and we want a running prototype to show. So for the sake of time constraints we are back to using a conventional generator for now until the motor section is complete. Coil spools will hopefully be in on Friday. We are going to use 20 coils on roughly a 20" diameter circle.

          Update: We have finalized the motor section design and the new model is in the album. There will be 20 standard rectangular magnets on each rotor. The dimension across the the outsides of the 2 rotors is 3.625 inches. We will have a section of 12" plastic pipe between the rotors to hold them together.

          Update: Today I read in Peter Lindemans book 1 on page 66 paragraph 2 that he is working on the exact same concept we are in using a Bedini energizer to run some type of efficient generator for a stand alone home power system. His book 3 is supposed to be about how to make that system.

          Update: The wire and spools we ordered are not in yet. Here's a construction tip. Yesterday I tried drilling the flat bottom counter bored holes that will hold each end of the coils with a 2 9/16" dia. forstner bit. The plywood repeatedly chipped up and and stopped the bit. I tested a piece of MDF and that worked excellent. As a result I will remake the coil holding boards in 5/8" MDF.
          Last edited by Radiantnrg; 09-01-2014, 10:15 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yesterday we made a very crude 16" wheel switched by a home made reed switch done on the fly. There was no circuitry. The coil had 4 130 foot pieces of 32 gauge wire twisted together and the ends connected at both ends. The voltage spikes were very high and off of the screen at the top. We connected one wire to a conventional screw in 110 volt LED light and touched the base to different points. It flashed full bright in sync with the spikes when it was touched to either terminal of the 12v battery that was running it.

            The wire and coil spools we ordered came into today.

            Update: 9-4, Today we finished routing out both of the 1/2" MDF rotors. The rectangular holes for the magnets are getting machined out. We also got the new 3/4" MDF blanks for the coil holders cut out. Tomorrow I will bore the 40 holes that will hold the coil ends and post pictures of the finished coil holders.
            We were able to demonstrate the capacitor "electret effect".
            Last edited by Radiantnrg; 09-04-2014, 09:15 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I just added 2 pictures to the album of the completed coil mounting panels that are colored green in the model. I only put half the spools in place so the counter bored holes could be seen. One picture shows the insides, and the other shows the 2 panels clamped together. A 3.5" wide section of 13" diameter schedule 90 pipe will connect the 2 rotors and go through the large hole in the center of the panels. It took too long to bore the holes due to an underpowered drill press. Other wise the 2-9/16" diameter forstner bit worked ok.

              We have decided on this coil configuration. A trigger coil will only be on one coil. All of the other coils will have just one wire and one transistor and wound for a very high electromagnet affect for very high torque. It will run in attraction mode. We will run the output into a capacitor discharge circuit. We will put a strip of aluminum flashing around the outside of the coil mounting panels to hold the circuits and serve as a transistor heat sink. All of the circuits will be right next to the ends of all the coils. There may be 3 common bus wires, and those may be small diameter copper tubing.
              Last edited by Radiantnrg; 09-05-2014, 05:03 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Radiantnrg View Post
                This thread is for the motor/generator build that a group of us are working on. We see the motor function and generator function as being 2 separate optimized parts for their specific use. We don't see any system performing both functions well at the same time. The Ferris Wheel appears to be of this configuration with the center coils and magnets being the driving electromagnetic motor and the large wheel the generator. We are going to have a motor section and separate generator section on a common shaft.

                The basis for this design and how it would work - We don't see any proof that a standard Bedini type machine can produce much usable power on it's own and never real time. By usable power we mean that after 8 years we donít see any one off grid powering a house or a car with them. We do see that they can produce extremely high amounts of torque. We want to take advantage of it's high torque to run a conventional generator unless we can come up with a better generator.

                A description of the motor section. ...

                ...
                A description of the generator section. The generator model is finally loaded here and in my album. (Where???) Now to figure out how to get them to the bottom of the post. The basic version of the up-loader works great.


                ...

                This project is full open sourcing. It was inspired by Peter Lindeman's Lockridge Device DVD
                Hi RadiantNrg (Nerd?)

                8 years! (Oh Jesus help me beyond this kind of lengthy struggle here.) You have been "Here" for 8 years in this forum and have not succeeded? Seeking mentoring and still failing after that long? Finding no one else here who has it working in an off-grid system? Patrick shows how to use a few batteries to feed one Breaker for lighting in your living room. Your fridge is 7X the power hog Vs. everything else in your home, and extremely sensitive and expensive to break with melting consequences too. All you were ever supposed to get with this is charged batteries, not live power. Do you really want the chore of dealing with live power generation 24x7? "Just charge batteries".

                I am 1 year in and resisting feeling like you are sounding about Bedini Tech. Paul Pantone is in jail for trying to educate folks about his GEET after being ordered not to. John Bedini is quoted in a thread here at a conference "Jamming" his finger into some guys chest and telling him 'Look, I have told you all that I am allowed to tell you, so get to it and put the pieces together'. (rusty paraphrase, please forgive). Also please forgive my paragraph style questions list below, as each is a critical topic for anyone who has wasted 1 year with incorrect plans as I have. I can not run along behind a slow trickle of instructions, still not fully published, with some future date promising advanced instructions. I xxx lots in MJL21194's in a xxx configuration that kills most of the BEMF, because I trusted a beginners handbook instead of real mentors I can communicate with. EDIT And it works anyway I do confess. EDIT


                Please tell me, are you using one transistor to switch with, or a NPN in series with a PNP for fastest shut-off? How fast are you switching "Off" your devices?

                Please tell us, will your generator use Ed Leedskanlin's secret u-core generator coil configuration, with CW one leg, CCW other, ends shorted together, going into a bridge? Mr. Angus Wangus shows this speeds up the rotor IF you draw current from it, and he says one fist-sized coils made from scrap yields "An Amp". An Amp at any respectable Volts is a BIG deal.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcfK...?v=gcfK0hfMKQI Free Energy Demonstration - Ed's Secret In the middle he shows the encrypted 3-layer schematic Ed put into the covers of his books, one changed after his death, restored by IAMHOTEP @ youtube i think it was.

                Please tell us, will your generator utilize timed coil shorting techniques to avoid Lenz drag?
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0leZLxHgST0 Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short

                Will it use Thane Heinz high impedance coils as a means of slowing BEMF response to point where rotor/magnet frequency gets into the acceleration groove while pumping out power too?
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVFXSZzUNmE Calculation of the Regenerative Acceleration Generator Delayed Lenz Effect

                Will it be used to form a high-voltage generator of ~ 600V or so, suitable for reactive power harvesting? Here is why so many volts pay off. Just watch these and see 110VAC providing only ~ 25 Watts FREE and how 220VAC provides 90 Watts FREE
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hr2C1vvvx4 Reactive Generator Tutorial Demo 1 At 27 minutes he shows the steam coming off a soaking wet cloth on the resistor burning with FREE reactive power from his motor-generator, and YES his motor-generator speeds up under the reactive load which is feeding energy back into the Rotor.
                and
                Here at 0:7:56 Luc says "Well here it is, the motor is running itself on reactive power". Needs grid kick-start if using only 110VAC when capaciter or MOT in series with motor.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6SaAjQaLkM Reactive Generator Tutorial Demo 2 by Luc gotoluc Choquette Here in this video (not to miss critical Part 1 before this)


                If you really want some live power to supplement the BIG deep-cycle battery banks you already have (Have? 8 years?), are you willing to make a simple BTT?
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdX...nJkotHljpyrvGQ Full measurements and tests on the Thane C. Heins' BiTT v1.5 (Bi-Toroid Transformer)

                Why not this GEGENE, because Jean-LouisNaudin loves it and removes any doubts you may have, or form if you start listening to noise:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Eo...nJkotHljpyrvGQ GEGENE Tested at full POWER
                and do not miss this Grid Tie Inverter setup also:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OlL...nJkotHljpyrvGQ GEGENE : Closed Loop test Phase 2 with a Grid Tie Inverter

                Why not this TMT:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJPz88jUbM Meyl shows Tesla longitudinal waves for wireless energy transmission
                ***But do high power this way else radiate yourself:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDBswShYWW4 Tesla Magnifying Transmitter configurations. At 15:35 you can see him showing how only that particular Non-Wireless configuration is safe for high power use within your home ('paraphrased').


                Please look at this one (below) and realize that for rotational generation, hands down, this is the best God has to offer us at this time (except for synthetic gasoline made from water, demonstarated by two UCLA professors and two UCLA Alumni in a Los Angles NBC live news in the studio in 1976. The newscasters we knew from every day drank off the 1 Galoon water bootle to make room for the two dry slugs that just fit through the hole, about 2" and 4" long each. When combined, Walla! Flammable and ran a Briggs and Stratton Boat engine in a trashcan full of water right in the studio, so all knew it was REAL. I found in Google Books in 2007 excerpts from a document titled: Senat Sub-Committe on Synthetic Gasoline, Sept. 23, 1976. Also discussed Sept 23 1975. When Google Books still showed it, before I asked Govt Print Office for a copy I never got, I pieced together one complete sentence from Googling the facts I witnessed on TV. That complete sentance stated "The most pressingf concern here is how to keep this secret, knowing that thousands of university students have already seen the demonstration (before it was on TV too). Ya. I mean Yes. Jesus says "Let your yes be yes and your no be no". I hereby swear it.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVOp-HPIVE Tesla coil "the true secret" how it was really used. by Mr. Teslonian, a Can-do Man.
                and if you have water flowing anywhere on your property, or not, please examine this closely and put together with the Wimshurst to Reversed Tesla Coil in the previous linked Mr. Teslonian vid above.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XofdRjwuAu8 Hydroelectric electrostatic generator the Lord Kelvin water drop generator
                and he does this with molten solder in another vid to make monopole magnet material (proof of concept verified). This man is surely genius. His Dad worked on Soviet MT's so huge they look like Water Slide Parks with Top Loads looking that way, resistors as big as Human Thighs.

                Please Benjamin, help me not spend 8 years and never succeed like you and your group members were forced to. I want to collaborate, and knowing what someone else already learned is the key, and everyone is too terrified to share once it works, and it really does work.

                Maybe, just maybe, John Bedini himself will read this and decide to place us who want this so badly into the accelerated group ;-) Oh please Jesus!

                Thank you in advance for your consideration.

                Ward (who loves the Lord)
                Last edited by Volty; 09-11-2014, 02:36 AM. Reason: Typos more

                Comment


                • #9
                  Volty, First I have not been at this 8 years, I have known about it but just now starting to build things. I was referring to the people who have been building for 8 years and have nothing to show for it as far as powering a house or a car. I am not in failure. And failure is only when you give up and quit. We will have the ability to make live power 24/7 but there will be so much of it we wont need to. Charging batteries would be another option but not the best thing to charge them with a conventional generator that we may use at first.

                  Switching will be by one transistor as in the simple circuit. We only need unity to slightly over unity in the motor section. We are not trying to optimize the motor for electrical power output like everyone else is. We are creating high torque. "We are not going by what we are not supposed to be able to do."

                  Yes our first area of research will be a PMH U-mag generator of some form. We don't know yet how much power it would put out and hope it will be low drag without any special electronics.

                  Thanks for all or your video links!, I will check all of them as I have time. We are scheduled to show a prototype running in less than a month at our local inventors meeting. So we are getting the motor section built first. We can have it run a conventional generator at the meeting and then develop a real generator later. Not 8 years, we will have our first prototype built from conception to running in about 6 weeks time!

                  Teslonian Man is now not far from here, and his brother is a very good friend and fellow way out of the box inventor.

                  I don't have time for more detail now. We will add updates as things get built.
                  Last edited by Radiantnrg; 09-06-2014, 07:45 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    confident i must say

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi RadiantEnergy,
                      Thank you for your kind response. For ~ high 90's percent'ish eff, you can use a mechanical swicthing pulse motor driving a standard generator. I saw one years back by some Canadian in a noisey metal file drawer on cinder blocks (bad choice). 100 percent AC Delco Points and camshaft timed and even had an ignition coil for voltage boosting. He was ~ 2.5 COP, and his video disappeared. Stephan from ouDotcom commented on it that solid state would not achieve ou in the pulse motor application. Maybe really it can with generator coils of Best Known Method.

                      I cannot stress enough the main issue in making BEMF is turning off fast like a mechanical switch does. TS doc's warn not to even try that without mechanical switching first so you will believe, before struggling with solid state methods.

                      I forgot to mention Mr. Angus Wangus' next video where he shows same Ed Leedskanlin opposing shorted coils, but air-core this time, like Ed's U-Core CW & CCW Shorted Always config. I mention because in U-Core, the magnets like to grab the iron cores, but that is overcome still with the config speeding the rotor IF current is drawn. The Quanta Charger guy on youtube shows the exact same two opposing very flat air-core bobbins arranged "Two per Bridge". That is what M.A.W. showed after Ed's secret, using a crummy drill motor to turn a rotor. It looks like bubble gum and duct tape, so no one will ever take down that amateur 'looking' video gem. You can find it at his youtube page in his videos. TMI here.

                      Can you or someone in your group point to best known turn-off methods? Has your group observed how poorly the lone trani or FET of any kind cannot turning Off fast nearly as fast as On, or considered this is a fundamental issue for success?

                      Can you provide good vendor links for rotors hub assembly components (hubs, bearings, shafts, and even rotor plates)? Your MDF rotor choice I ponder why not low-density poly-pro?

                      Can you please link your photos I could never find? I see no attachments or links as you are saying you added more photos. Please repeat pictures links.

                      Thanks again,

                      Ward, who loves the Lord
                      Last edited by Volty; 09-06-2014, 11:48 AM. Reason: percent symbol no worky.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        do you mean inductive kickback instead of BEMF?
                        Bemf is the generator action inside a motor winding that oopses the voltage applied to the coils, and usually we want as little as possible not to generate it.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwtiX3pFCIE

                        all the inductive kickback is an attempt by the coil to maintain current by increasing the voltage with respect to resistance, V/CR if you give the current a path there will be no spike at all, if your sucess is based on extraction rather than use then switching will be important, but arent there other ways of using the stored charge in the coil?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I meant the advantage gained from turning a coil Off Vs. On.

                          The context is a pulse motor running in Attraction Mode, not a DC motor as you linked. The 'advantage gained from turning a coil Off Vs. On' is the reason that Attraction Mode is preferred by JB. That advantage is used to assist propulsion away from the reversing coil. Right? Are you suggesting it would be a good idea for this thread to use a DC Motor to turn their generator with with some special methods you know of?

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUJza3l8rmU Marco's Dancing Magnets - Observe 8Hz at 1:33 Vs 7.83 Hz at 2:27 of 3:29.

                          Note that the Ionisphere resonance is exactly 1.5x that of Earths EMR, and it is electro-static resonance, not electromagnetic. It is like the Earth is the inductor, and the sky is the Capacitor.

                          Here http://www.energeticforum.com/159939-post471.html Eric Dollard discusses the forgotten four-quadrants of electricity, where he shows that P=IE also needs include the elctro-static components 'e' and 'i', and not just E and I

                          What I called BEMF, is from interaction with Earth's Magnetic Field (or the Vacuum?), and is seen as ringing over-shoot at rise-times, and extremely more at fall-times. If you use a magnetic pick-up with your Scope, and put it in a soup can and sit it on your coil, you can see the waves inside. Try this and use it to view Square wave or Impulses stimulating one end of an end of open-ended coil, which turn to Sine wave resonance at the other end. However, when you add a Gnd to the soup can, you see only the scalar over-shoot at rise-time is way smaller than fall-times centered on Gnd on your Scope. I had to beg hard to learn how to make this pick-up. It is a piece of small twin lead rolled up into a two-layer Cinnomin roll, per is twin lead. Connect scope without Gnd lead to one lead at outside only. This pick-up demonstrates that any pulsating or resonating magnetic-static field can be replicated into infinity, without diminishing the source (dipole?).
                          Note I carefully avoided saying electro-magnetic field, because in open-ended coil stimulation via direct connection to one end, while other end floats 1/4 wave-style, like a wagging stick, there is no where for current to flow, and no magnetic field. This magnetic pick-up is called that, but it picks up both magnetic and electro-static waves, and allows weak signals to drive your Scope, whereas a lone flat spiral gets sapped to Gnd. Please make one and try it. Soak in what it is telling you about parallel and perpendicular wires.

                          I have heard at every decent party, everyone brings something to share. Please forgive my style. I do not intend to offend anyone anywhere. I want to succeed with "This" OU before I am too old to try.

                          Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord
                          Last edited by Volty; 09-06-2014, 01:05 PM. Reason: typo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BEMF is applicable to any magnet moving near any coil driven by any voltage source whether it be dc or ac or pulsed. i.e. any emf
                            what you are talking about is inductive kickback and you should call it that i think (?)
                            please see https://archive.org/details/FM55-506-1
                            REALLY GOOD BOOK!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ward, You have our attention for the need to switch off fast. The reason being the faster the magnetic field collapses the more energy is collected. We were more concerned about all of the coils switching at the exactly the same time than switching off fast.
                              I think a mech. rotor switch will be the fastest turn off method and we will now look into it. That brings up a question. The reason that neos are told not to be used is because they affect the sense coil adversely by flooding the coils and slowing the switching down. If we go to a rotor switch can we then use very strong neos for more torque as that is what we are after most. If that is true then thanks much for your input! I see neos used on the zero force, ferris wheel and window motor.
                              We get drive parts locally at Brown Bearing, and McGuire bearing. You may also try McMaster Car, Grainger, and MSC.
                              The MDF was cheap, easy to get and machine. We are going to coat all the MDF parts with epoxy resin. For any kind of production plastic or aluminum will be used.
                              The potential between sky and earth is 300 volts per meter.
                              BMW: I agree that BEMF or CEMF is different from the energy from a collapsing magnetic field around a coil. That is what we are dealing with here.
                              Ward thanks for all your references and ideas, so far you are the only one on these boards that I know of who thinks the way we do The goal is to power houses not duplicate toys over and over and think you are accomplishing something wonderful.
                              I think if you click on my name it will take you to my page where all the photos are.

                              Update" I have been thinking about the mechanical switching and realy like the idea. I would love to turn the coils on attraction mode when the leading edge of the magnets are tangent to the coil cores and then turn them off instantly when they are directly over the cores. We can then wind our coils as super electro magnets for incredible mechanical force. We have a 1 inch dia. shaft we are going to use.

                              If we wrap our coils with electrical steel will that have any advantages? We have some on hand. Would black sand cores be better than welding rods?
                              thanks,
                              Last edited by Radiantnrg; 09-06-2014, 07:04 PM.

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