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Bedini's Linear Current Amplifier

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  • #16
    Nityesh,
    I'm bread-boarding up your circuit and noticed that on IC2 that the ground rail is listed as pin 8 and voltage rail is listed as pin 4. is this how you intended or are they reversed. I also substituted 2SA1264n with NTE37 and 2SC2335 with NTE379 Because NTE supplier local. Parts should not cause issue.
    Thanks again

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Ecancanvas View Post
      Nityesh,
      I'm bread-boarding up your circuit and noticed that on IC2 that the ground rail is listed as pin 8 and voltage rail is listed as pin 4. is this how you intended or are they reversed. I also substituted 2SA1264n with NTE37 and 2SC2335 with NTE379 Because NTE supplier local. Parts should not cause issue.
      Thanks again
      The 2SC2335 is not critical, because it is only used for clamping down the excessive voltage of the pre-filter cap, so it does not raise above 30V, you can use almost any NPN as long as it can handle the voltage and current. The 2SC2335 was from a computer power supply, and I had lots of them.

      The NTE37 will work fine, Remember to have on a heat sink, Q1, and Q2 can be "2 x MJL21194", "2 x 2n3055", or "2 x MJ15024"

      Have Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 and Q6 on a heat sink with insulators.

      If you can afford it, it doesn't hurt to get extra transistors for spare parts, some times accidents happen with circuit prototyping.

      Yes IC2 pin 4 and 8 are the wrong way, my mistake, thankyou for pointing that out.
      I will correct this as soon as I can.

      Thankyou for your time on this circuit.

      For your interest , if you like, I can post the previous circuits, I tried. The circuit you have is the 3rd design.


      Pin 4 is GND, Pin8 Is Vcc, positive.

      The lm358 have 2 op-amps in one package, lm358.png

      In the case of this circuit IC2 has an unused op-amp, so the the input pins need to be tied to vcc (pin8) or Negative (pin4). So just connect pins 4,5 and 6 together and this will tie both inputs of the unused op-amp in IC2 to negative (pin4).

      Between R10,C5 and R11,C6 is "op-amp ground" This divides the voltage from the output of the beta multiplier, in half. Because there are other resistors, that are connected to op-amp ground, this can either pull up or pull down the voltage, from the halfway value. So you can get over half of under half.

      So replace R11 for a 10K pot and adjust until the "op-amp ground" voltage is correct.

      From my experiment of this, I found R11 needs to be 5K.

      Change these, C3 = 220uf, C4 = 47uF

      RV2 can be anything between 10K and 100K, this is only to provide an adjustable voltage command, for pin3 of IC1A. Since the op amp has high impedance input there is not really any current, just voltage. So RV1 can be high impedance, but not too high otherwise, unwanted noise can enter pin3 of IC1A.

      The gain of IC2 will very most likely need to be, scaled correctly to interface to the summing point at pin5 of IC1B. So You can adjust the gain, by connecting a resistor between pin1 and pin2 of IC2B. This will reduce the gain by adding negative feedback as well as stabilizing the output of IC2A. I am not sure what this value should be, you can put a 100K adjustable resistor between pin1 and pin2 of IC2B and tune. Then replace for a fixed resistor.

      R13 is the voltage feedback resistor, and will need to be tuned, or calculated.

      R3 and R6 values need to balance the base of the beta multiplier, and hold the voltage to double the battery voltage (base of Q2).

      If you connect a diode with the anode on the collector of Q6 and the cathode on the output of the beta multiplier (emitter of Q1). The battery can also power the linear circuits.

      You can use a 30V power supply, to test the circuit and tune/balance the voltages of the resistor network. With a small 100ma incandescent light in place of the battery, for a dummy load.

      Before you test on your ssg.

      Here is another thing, if you have had any of you neons flashing purple on your ssg because you left the back end open, say good bye to your matched transistors and COP, my machines would not be the same after lots of purple/white flash, care for your ssg transistors and your coil.

      On my MEG the dummy load went open circuit, and 2000V later, "6 months with a leaky coil".

      So what I am saying is maybe the coils can also go leaky if left open circuit on the ssg, like with my MEG experiment.

      I hope this helps.
      Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-21-2014, 01:23 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Modified Nityesh Schematic rev 2.pdf
        I have never used 2 regulators in this way. I have used 2 regulators to up the amp capability but not working in the negative. are pins 1 an 2 on reg 2 correct. (i changed them around and circuit would not work) so i am assuming the way you have it is correct. Listed on your schematic it shows -12v but when i measure it its at 2.5 v. i have looked online trying to find explanation of the regulator set up but have had no luck. my breadboard circuit will charge a battery really fast but it is not shutting the charging cycle off when 15v is reached (no matter where i set the pots) I need to trace out my board to make sure everything hooked correctly. I realize all our Bedini systems are a little different so the changes i do might not effect others systems in the same way. i listed the changes i have made to date on schematic listed as rev 2. Nityesh, your recommendation of a hooking up a 30v power supply is the way to go, will need to get one next payday my current one only gos up to 15v
        Fun Stuff

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ecancanvas View Post
          [ATTACH]3840[/ATTACH]
          I have never used 2 regulators in this way. I have used 2 regulators to up the amp capability but not working in the negative. are pins 1 an 2 on reg 2 correct. (i changed them around and circuit would not work) so i am assuming the way you have it is correct. Listed on your schematic it shows -12v but when i measure it its at 2.5 v. i have looked online trying to find explanation of the regulator set up but have had no luck. my breadboard circuit will charge a battery really fast but it is not shutting the charging cycle off when 15v is reached (no matter where i set the pots) I need to trace out my board to make sure everything hooked correctly. I realize all our Bedini systems are a little different so the changes i do might not effect others systems in the same way. i listed the changes i have made to date on schematic listed as rev 2. Nityesh, your recommendation of a hooking up a 30v power supply is the way to go, will need to get one next payday my current one only gos up to 15v
          Fun Stuff
          I see another one of my mistakes, I put the power source of R7 at the output of the positive regulator, Pin3, instead connect to the output of the beta multiplier, (emitter of Q1).

          The voltage reference circuit R7,RV2 and ZD2 should really, get it's power source from the beta multiplier. As for the zener your 17V one is fine since, the voltage source to pin3,IC1A is adjustable anyway.

          R2 and LED1 need to be connected in parallel, otherwise you will fry your led, and it will go open circuit and the beta multiplier will raise to 80V, and the cap dump at 80V, can vaporize stuff.

          As for the regulators, the LM7812 and LM7912 the pin-outs are different.

          The Regulator Pinouts on the circuit are correct.

          You said it charges fast, how much current does it draw, from the power source.
          Does it charge faster than your other design or slower. And the wheel speed, how is that.

          The fact it charges fast is a big success. As for the voltage regulation. A small problem compared to your success.

          reg.jpeg
          Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-22-2014, 06:32 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Nityesh Schnaderbeck View Post
            I see another one of my mistakes, I put the power source of R7 at the output of the positive regulator, Pin3, instead connect to the output of the beta multiplier, (emitter of Q1).

            The voltage reference circuit R7,RV2 and ZD2 should really, get it's power source from the beta multiplier. As for the zener your 17V one is fine since, the voltage source to pin3,IC1A is adjustable anyway.

            R2 and LED1 need to be connected in parallel, otherwise you will fry your led, and it will go open circuit and the beta multiplier will raise to 80V, and the cap dump at 80V, can vaporize stuff.
            Nityesh,

            I cannot thank you enough for your work here. I did not ever think I would see a schematic like this that actually makes replicating this circuit possible. I am on holidys next week so I am thinking of building this circuit up to test. Wondering if you have protoyped it yet or if anyone else has and how it is preforming. Is it able to supply 2 Amps? I could also layout a pcb design for all of us here o make building it easier

            Comment


            • #21
              In the process to prototyping this circuit. The previous circuits I have already built is very similar to this one, I think the loading of the wheel was because the load, dropped the battery voltage. If the battery was kept as 15V under load, maybe the wheel would keep it's speed.

              I had the feeling I was close, because I could, turn up the voltage, to maintain the load at 15V (the set impedance threshold at 15V determined by a command voltage, from a potentiometer) but if I took the load off the battery, The battery would try and charge to 16V.

              So I just needed something to turn up the command voltage (this is the voltage just from the potentiometer) with presence of a load.

              Something that can sense current, that can help stabilize the voltage with changes in current. And tell the "linear amp regulator" to supply the load with more current, to maintain the voltage.

              But when the impedance of the battery is low enough at 15V, the "Linear amp regulator" will limit the current to maintain 15V.

              My previous circuits were missing IC2A, the current sensing feedback amp.

              There may be some experimentation involved with mixing the "current" and "voltage" signal, for the correct impedance feedback.

              If impedance or resistance = volts/amps, then op-amps need to apply the same mathematical formula, with an analogue computer/logic/op-amp calculator (op-amps performing analogue voltage calculations)

              To calculate the impedance from the measured voltage and current signals with an op-amp.

              Then the "linear amp regulator" can listen to impedance changes in the battery. Then the "linear amp regulator" knows the right timing for the pulses.
              Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-22-2014, 03:36 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Joster View Post
                Nityesh,

                I cannot thank you enough for your work here. I did not ever think I would see a schematic like this that actually makes replicating this circuit possible. I am on holidys next week so I am thinking of building this circuit up to test. Wondering if you have protoyped it yet or if anyone else has and how it is preforming. Is it able to supply 2 Amps? I could also layout a pcb design for all of us here o make building it easier
                T-E-A-M Together-Everyone-Achieves-More

                PCB is great Thankyou , making strip-board, projects takes a very long time to build for me.

                How much current it will produce has a lot to do with your ssg machine, as this design can have over 10A flowing though the beta multiplier and the PNP output device.
                Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-22-2014, 10:37 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Cool, I will get to work on it.

                  I am working from the schematic you posted with the ic2 power and grnd pin correction as well as the r7 zener reference connected to beta multiplier emitter hopefully it will make it easier for everyone to get this circuit going. We can keep making revisions until its cut and dry.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    excellent, Many talents in this forum, not everyone is a PCB artist. I have been using a computer cpu heat sink, to cool the beta multiplier and and the PNP output device. And I have using the fan, to cool when the heat sink gets too hot. But if you use 2n3055 devices that are TO-3 packages, the cpu heat sink would not suitable. Have fun designing.
                    Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-22-2014, 11:50 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Im so glad people are joining in the fun. In video 37 the second large resistor hiding behind the cap could it be a higher value and hooked to ground to dump anything not used by the system? there is also a pre-conference video out on u-tube by Mr Bedini about the linear amp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l8BE-PUNHM called Linear Amp Control SSG / School Girl Motor on utube.
                      Natiyesh, would you mind posting your 2 older versions of your circuit.
                      I found the error in my bread board and the circuit is working now.

                      Mr Bedini talks about servo amp, summing amp, and comparator. but his Op Amp is only 8 pins so the most he can have is 2 op amps unless one is hidden on the board that you cant see, or he is preforming the summing or servo current sensing an other way.
                      I dont think people realize what He has done. He has created a clean linear dc power source from a mass less potential. what can you run with that?

                      Natiyesh i will second that your circuit is working I think you nailed it by calling it an impedance regulator.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi guys,

                        I do not want to spoil your excitement. But you should really consider using emitter follower for the output.

                        Regards
                        Lman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lman View Post
                          Hi guys,

                          I do not want to spoil your excitement. But you should really consider using emitter follower for the output.

                          Regards
                          Lman
                          Lman, do you have a schematic that can help move things in that direction?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Nityesh,Ecancanvas, do you think you guys could post a short video would be awesome to see there circuit in operation

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thankyou for your Knowledge "Lman", I will investigate the emitter follower:, My interest is to find the truth of this "linear amp regulator" beyond "ego and arrogance", then clear thinking is possible. This suggestion could prevent us from floundering around for years and years. I could not thank you enough. I have lots of holes in my knowledge, and love to learn new things.
                              Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-24-2014, 01:45 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lman View Post
                                Hi guys,

                                I do not want to spoil your excitement. But you should really consider using emitter follower for the output.

                                Regards
                                Lman

                                This design has PNP output transistor and a resistor, on the emitter. I am taking the output from the collector. If this Means changing this to an NPN output transistor, and taking the output from the emitter.


                                This is very a simple mod.

                                For NPN output transistor, swap pin5 and pin6 of IC1B, and connect the collector of the NPN to R15 and the emitter to the positive of the battery.
                                Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 09-23-2014, 06:57 PM.

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