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  • Gary's "Complete Advanced" SSG Build

    Hi all,

    I've had my latest SSG build up to the intermediate book level for some time, and am now starting on the advanced book build. I managed to blow a FET in my 555 based cap discharge I built from the intermediate book schematic, so now plan to build the circuit so generously posted by Nityesh Schnaderbeck. THANKS NITYESH !

    I've mostly been charging with it in common ground mode and was able to get it over unity that way running in the 230 to 265 RPM range at 1.6 to 1.8 amps input with about a 3/8" air gap not using the cap discharge. And in the radiant mode it was pulling about 1.0 to 1.2 amps at an RPM from 168 to 180 and double pulsing. If I mechanically speeded it up it would single pulse in radiant mode at 315 to 335 RPM only pulling around 800ma, but the charging was slower that way.

    Today I temporarily installed a pot and started adjusting the air gap trying to get the RPM's up to the 370 range like Peter did. And even though I left the 21 magnets on the wheel, I was still able to get it up to 375 RPM by reducing the air gap to 1/8" and increasing the common base resistor from 12 ohms to 40 ohms. And like Peter's demo model, I have to short out the resistor to get it to shift from double pulse to single pulse. The current draw was 900 to 1000 ma and the charging is slower than when double pulsing at a lower speed.

    Now I need to order some 16awg wire and build the wide genny coil. That and build a new cap pulser.

    I've also been experimenting with a large genny coil directly below the main coil with a small air gap between the cores. It puts out the same wave form as the main coil and will light a string of LEDs with no apparent load on the main coil output, the input, or the RPM.
    Last edited by Gary Hammond; 12-01-2014, 11:54 PM.

  • #2
    Good going Gary �� Thanks for updating us on your progress.

    John K.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gary Hammond View Post
      Hi all,

      I've had my latest SSG build up to the intermediate book level for some time, and am now starting on the advanced book build. I managed to blow a FET in my 555 based cap discharge I built from the intermediate book schematic, so now plan to build the circuit so generously posted by Nityesh Schnaderbeck. THANKS NITYESH !

      I've mostly been charging with it in common ground mode and was able to get it over unity that way running in the 230 to 265 RPM range at 1.6 to 1.8 amps input with about a 3/8" air gap not using the cap discharge. And in the radiant mode it was pulling about 1.0 to 1.2 amps at an RPM from 168 to 180 and double pulsing. If I mechanically speeded it up it would single pulse in radiant mode at 315 to 335 RPM only pulling around 800ma, but the charging was slower that way.

      Today I temporarily installed a pot and started adjusting the air gap trying to get the RPM's up to the 370 range like Peter did. And even though I left the 21 magnets on the wheel, I was still able to get it up to 375 RPM by reducing the air gap to 1/8" and increasing the common base resistor from 12 ohms to 40 ohms. And like Peter's demo model, I have to short out the resistor to get it to shift from double pulse to single pulse. The current draw was 900 to 1000 ma and the charging is slower than when double pulsing at a lower speed.

      Now I need to order some 16awg wire and build the wide genny coil. That and build a new cap pulser.

      I've also been experimenting with a large genny coil directly below the main coil with a small air gap between the cores. It puts out the same wave form as the main coil and will light a string of LEDs with no apparent load on the main coil output, the input, or the RPM.
      That's great progress! Is your coil 7 power windings or 8?

      So at 375rpm you had a current draw of .9-1.0 amps? Was that in common ground mode?

      When the wheel gets up to the highest speed on it's own, it can still increase in speed shoring out the resistor for a bit even if it is single triggering. I came up with that shorting trick years ago to get my little roller skate sg to go faster. I maybe originally had a 680 ohm resistor on the base and remember at 100 ohms it was way faster so when it got up to speed, I figured that if I shorted the resistor that would drop it enough to let more trigger happen to kick it up in speed and it did...was able to get it to shift about 3 times. I had a fixed resistor that was fairly low and left a 10 turn pot in series and was amazed how I could keep getting it to speed up. If everyone did that to builds they already have, they'd find they can get them quite a bit faster for less draw just about every time. All these little things definitely add up.
      Aaron Murakami





      You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Aaron,

        Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
        That's great progress! Is your coil 7 power windings or 8?

        So at 375rpm you had a current draw of .9-1.0 amps? Was that in common ground mode?
        The coil is 7 power windings. I got it from Tom C. at Teslagenx .

        The 375rpm and .9-1.0 amp current draw was in radiant mode. It slows down some and draws more current in common ground mode.

        I'm still working on the tuning. I don't know why I had to decrease the air gap so much to get more rpm with the increased resistance. It was charging pretty slowly like this, so I dropped the resistance back to 30 ohms and the voltage of the charge battery immeadiately started climbing faster. The wheel speed slowed down 15 or 20 rpm at this resistance and the machine was pulling 1.1 - 1.2 amps with the 30 ohm resistor. I may end up going to 36 ohms, like Peter did, as a compromise to get faster charging in radiant mode.

        I just ordered an assortment of power resistors and some 16awg wire. I'm an old guy with too many projects, so progress is slow.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
          That's great progress! Is your coil 7 power windings or 8?

          So at 375rpm you had a current draw of .9-1.0 amps? Was that in common ground mode?

          When the wheel gets up to the highest speed on it's own, it can still increase in speed shoring out the resistor for a bit even if it is single triggering. I came up with that shorting trick years ago to get my little roller skate sg to go faster. I maybe originally had a 680 ohm resistor on the base and remember at 100 ohms it was way faster so when it got up to speed, I figured that if I shorted the resistor that would drop it enough to let more trigger happen to kick it up in speed and it did...was able to get it to shift about 3 times. I had a fixed resistor that was fairly low and left a 10 turn pot in series and was amazed how I could keep getting it to speed up. If everyone did that to builds they already have, they'd find they can get them quite a bit faster for less draw just about every time. All these little things definitely add up.


          You get lucked on to the tunning..some how!!
          Rgds,
          Faraday88.
          'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi all,

            Just a little update on my progress with the advanced book build.

            I made RS's cap dump circuit with Nityesh Schnaderbeck's mods, minus the stabilization resistor for the opto, and added an led with limiting resistor in parallel with the opto so I can see it pulse. I also expanded the circuit to accommodate four matched FETs instead of just two. This circuit works great, and was easy to dial in with the aid of my o-scope. The cap (66,000 uf) charges to about 24 volts and dumps to 19 volts the way I have it set right now.

            I wound up using the three 12 ohm resistors in series for the base resistance just as Peter did. It runs at 380 RPM and draws 1.1 amps in radiant mode when using the cap dump. In common ground mode it runs 360 RPM and draws 1.4 amps with the cap dump installed. I found I have to shift the base resistance to four different settings to get it up to full speed. So I hooked up a SPDT switch to give me the four speeds, with first and forth being the same resistance. So it's like the four-on-the-floor in my Bradley GT. I have to run it up through the gears at full throttle to reach full speed! LOL

            Got the genny coil spool made and today I wound it with the 1000' of 16AWG wire as per the book. That was a real bear of a job to wind by hand! Still have to connect the loose ends and cut and install the welding rod to finish the coil. I've also got the frame extended and a mounting for the coil installed.

            As I stated in a previous post, I had to reduce the main coil gap to 1/8" to achieve top speed with this setup. And the charging rate to the secondary battery is much less than I was getting with the 3/8" gap and 12 ohm resistance. So after I get the generator coil hooked up I'm going to test it's output at the lower speed of the original (intermediate book) set up with the wider gap and lower resistance as well as at the higher speeds. I'm not sure that lighting a few leds is worth the greatly reduced lose of charge rate in the advanced mode with higher RPM.

            JB told us at the 2013 conference (as shown in EFV 34) that the charging efficiency drops off beyond a certain critical speed, as do nearly all other machines. I think that was part of the reason for the two fans on the machine he demonstrated.

            I know mine seems to charge the best with two fans installed, and the base resistor at 12 ohms with a 3/8" air gap. I'm thinking the generator coil can replace the fans for a load, and still give me over unity charging in direct common ground mode.
            Last edited by Gary Hammond; 12-23-2014, 11:42 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi All, New update

              When running with 36 ohms base resistance and only 1/8" air gap in radiant mode, the added generator coil will power 40 LEDs and produce 370 RPM with the cap discharge connected. But the charging is very slow. It takes 3 hours pulling 1.0 to 1.1 amps from the run battery to replace the 1.0 amp hour previously pulled from the charge battery. And when running the same way in common ground mode, the results are only slightly better. It pulls 1.4 amps from the run battery at 355 RPM and takes about 2 hours to replace the 1.0 amp hour previously taken from the charge battery. And I can't see much difference whether it runs directly to the charge battery or through the cap discharge unit.

              It also will power an additional 40 LEDs from the generator coil I added upside down under the main 8 filar coil with no added load anywhere in the system! This one is a freebee!

              BUT .....When I go back to the 3/8" air gap and 12 ohm base resistance it will still light all 80 LEDs running at 314 RPM and pulling 1.0 amps from the run battery. It takes it 2.33 hours to replace the 1.0 amp hour in this mode. And in common ground mode it pulls 1.6 amps, lights 80 LEDs, starts at 220 RPM, and fully recharges the battery to 15.3 volts at 250 RPM in only 32 minutes for a COP of 1.17 !!!

              Just for kicks and grins, I let it keep running in common ground mode and started adding loads to the charge battery. I plotted this run on my CBA analyzer and show it below. I first added a 500 ma load of LEDs, then another 100 ma load of LEDs, then another 100ma load of LEDS for a total of 700 ma of load ........and the battery voltage kept on climbing after each load was added, so then I added a 300 watt inverter at idle which pulls 300 ma. The system was now powering 80 LEDs, 3 LED panels from Teslagenix, and an inverter for a total of 1 amp load while only pulling 1.6 to 1.8 amps from the run battery. All this, and the charge battery was still slowly going up in voltage while the run battery was dropping only very slowly!!!

              The negative spikes on the charge curve are where I inserted an ammeter to check current draw on the run battery, and the positive spikes are where I added each additional load to the charge battery. The very last spike is where I removed all the load from the charge battery.

              1-6-15 charge curve.JPG
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Gary Hammond; 01-06-2015, 08:00 PM. Reason: added info

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's some photos of the machine.

                advanced SSG 001.jpg

                advanced SSG 002.jpg

                advanced SSG 003.jpg

                advanced SSG 007.jpg

                Cap Discharge 001.jpg
                Last edited by Gary Hammond; 01-06-2015, 07:57 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  AMAZING! !!

                  In my mini advanced ssg I am seeing the same, the comparator dumps much faster at lower speeds.

                  I did read that the correct tuning was when the coil is switching only 1 time per magnet pass, it goes way faster that way but it charges faster and draw less when is triggering multiple times per magnet pass. maybe I am doing something wrong.

                  Gary have you connected the output of the gen coil to the comparator? Instead of leds? I didn't tried leds just directly to the comparator together with the ssg output. In my ssg the gen coils create some drag but not too much, depending on how much you chop the wave. But some drag is good isn't? Like the fan.

                  Alvaro

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Alvaro,

                    Originally posted by AlvaroHN View Post
                    AMAZING! !!

                    In my mini advanced ssg I am seeing the same, the comparator dumps much faster at lower speeds.

                    I did read that the correct tuning was when the coil is switching only 1 time per magnet pass, it goes way faster that way but it charges faster and draw less when is triggering multiple times per magnet pass. maybe I am doing something wrong.

                    Gary have you connected the output of the gen coil to the comparator? Instead of leds? I didn't tried leds just directly to the comparator together with the ssg output. In my ssg the gen coils create some drag but not too much, depending on how much you chop the wave. But some drag is good isn't? Like the fan.

                    Alvaro
                    In radiant mode, mine charges best when it's double pulsing at about 185 RPM with 3/8" air gap and 12 ohm base common resistor. When single pulsing it runs at 310 to 320 RPM, but charges slower with about the same current draw.

                    In common ground (gen) mode it charges best at 216 to 260 RPM with 3/8" air gap and 12 ohm base resistor. With the two fans it starts out at 216 RPM and with the generator coils it starts out at 220 RPM. Charging is over 1 to 1 either way in this mode.

                    The charging rate with my comparator cap dump falls somewhere between straight radiant and straight common ground modes.

                    My comparator cap dump is too large for the genny coils. I did try it, but couldn't get the voltage high enough for it to dump. I'm thinking of making a different cap dump just for the gen coils. I'm using two diodes in reversed polarity to each other to charge two different caps in a voltage doubling scheme for both of my genny coils. I take the power from across the two caps. Sort of like splitting the positive. I think it is possible to dump these across a battery for charging with the proper circuit. Not a lot of energy here, so it would probably be a slow charger. But it would still be relatively free energy!

                    And yes, I think some drag is good. The trick is using the drag to produce the most energy. You can have light, wind, lost friction, or charging. Take your pick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tnx for the reply Gary,

                      I also thought about making another comparator for the gen coils but I tried mixing the ssg output and the gen coils output and it works, it dumps faster, but I have to rearrange my gen coils because they only make like 20 volts and the cap dumps at 24. So they only help fill the cap half the way.

                      Alvaro

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Excellent work Gary and an impressive effort on your part to replicate the advanced SG configuration! Motivating me to get my butt in motion...

                        Thanks

                        Yaro
                        Yaro

                        "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Yaro,

                          Thanks!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Iniital Progress in CG Mode

                            Gary,

                            Your thread motivated me to follow in your foot steps. My build though, may not be on par with your efforts in that there are issues with my 8 trans board - but nevertheless a real world check for the Common ground mode of operation.

                            The 8 trans board used has a blown transistor and a belatedly discovered physical break in the circuit between the P- terminals on the board. Corrected by a jumper for this phase of testing after much head scratching, ha!

                            I used two identical wheels for the testing with an actual OD of 22 5/8" (nominal 26" wheel) with 21 magnets. One wheel has a free spin time of nearly 11 minutes, while the other is an ugly 2.5 minutes. The scavenged CG diode was provided by buddy James MacD.

                            Long story short - in radiant mode Wheel #1 (high friction) ran best charging capability at 0.200 inch coil gap at about 236 rpm with no base resistance with a nominal 0.75amps input. Net COP here is about 0.60.. Dropping the rpm (to double spike mode) would improve the COP to about 0.62 with best charging capability. Well, switching this wheel to CG mode showed no wheel spin capability above a 0.250 inch gap. At 0.225 inch gap it performed fairly well at a 170 - 184 rpm range and input of 1.33 amps with a net COP of 0.75. The frictional component in this run is revealing when compared to the low friction wheel next. The primary battery did not increase in charge voltage.

                            Wheel #2 (low friction) - in radiant mode (Mode 1) ran best speed (307rpm) at 0.175" coil gap with 12 ohms base resistance, but the charging was not impressive. Best charge was at 24 ohms base Resistance at ~175 rpm - touchy area of performance! In CG mode this wheel was most impressive at ~0.350 inch coil gap with charge input varying between 1.42 to 1.65 and down to 0.77 amps with 36 ohms base over a range of 193 to 223 rpm. Net COP was about 0.75, Wow, but not quite there... The charge amps were measured with a True RMS clamp on meter at the positive terminals of the charge and primary battery. There was a minor difference if the battery negative terminals were used. The primary battery did not increase in charge voltage during these tests.

                            As displayed in the above, Common Ground mode is very sensitive to charge battery voltage when the wheel config is low friction. Performance is way more stable and predictable with a frictional load - be it the wheel and maybe the battery or Gen coil. Bear in mind that this was a preliminary test using what was at hand. BTW all the coil wires are soldered to the board and all the battery connections are #10 awg with soldered terminals.

                            So it does appear to make sense to have the fans attached to the wheel to stabilize performance with the additional frictional load. While the above test did not achieve the level of Gary's results,it did provide valuable information for the next series of improvements. Hey, there is still 2 foot of snow outside the door and any distraction is welcome...

                            More to come on this with arrival of additional components.

                            Best to all,
                            Yaro
                            Yaro

                            "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Which mode tp select when you do what...?

                              Originally posted by Yaro1776 View Post
                              Gary,

                              Your thread motivated me to follow in your foot steps. My build though, may not be on par with your efforts in that there are issues with my 8 trans board - but nevertheless a real world check for the Common ground mode of operation.

                              The 8 trans board used has a blown transistor and a belatedly discovered physical break in the circuit between the P- terminals on the board. Corrected by a jumper for this phase of testing after much head scratching, ha!

                              I used two identical wheels for the testing with an actual OD of 22 5/8" (nominal 26" wheel) with 21 magnets. One wheel has a free spin time of nearly 11 minutes, while the other is an ugly 2.5 minutes. The scavenged CG diode was provided by buddy James MacD.

                              Long story short - in radiant mode Wheel #1 (high friction) ran best charging capability at 0.200 inch coil gap at about 236 rpm with no base resistance with a nominal 0.75amps input. Net COP here is about 0.60.. Dropping the rpm (to double spike mode) would improve the COP to about 0.62 with best charging capability. Well, switching this wheel to CG mode showed no wheel spin capability above a 0.250 inch gap. At 0.225 inch gap it performed fairly well at a 170 - 184 rpm range and input of 1.33 amps with a net COP of 0.75. The frictional component in this run is revealing when compared to the low friction wheel next. The primary battery did not increase in charge voltage.

                              Wheel #2 (low friction) - in radiant mode (Mode 1) ran best speed (307rpm) at 0.175" coil gap with 12 ohms base resistance, but the charging was not impressive. Best charge was at 24 ohms base Resistance at ~175 rpm - touchy area of performance! In CG mode this wheel was most impressive at ~0.350 inch coil gap with charge input varying between 1.42 to 1.65 and down to 0.77 amps with 36 ohms base over a range of 193 to 223 rpm. Net COP was about 0.75, Wow, but not quite there... The charge amps were measured with a True RMS clamp on meter at the positive terminals of the charge and primary battery. There was a minor difference if the battery negative terminals were used. The primary battery did not increase in charge voltage during these tests.

                              As displayed in the above, Common Ground mode is very sensitive to charge battery voltage when the wheel config is low friction. Performance is way more stable and predictable with a frictional load - be it the wheel and maybe the battery or Gen coil. Bear in mind that this was a preliminary test using what was at hand. BTW all the coil wires are soldered to the board and all the battery connections are #10 awg with soldered terminals.

                              So it does appear to make sense to have the fans attached to the wheel to stabilize performance with the additional frictional load. While the above test did not achieve the level of Gary's results,it did provide valuable information for the next series of improvements. Hey, there is still 2 foot of snow outside the door and any distraction is welcome...

                              More to come on this with arrival of additional components.

                              Best to all,
                              Yaro
                              Hi All,

                              Did you guys ever gave it a thought where to use which mode..? each has some thing specific to it self..
                              JB says it correct ..'People must learn from the dark ages' and when they do the lights are on and a 25Wbulb in total darkness is bright enough to do rest of the search!
                              I see that this forum is doing very less of the Scientific scrutiny in understanding what all these toplogies mean. Just like Tesla said that an Experiment can defy any Theory, While a proven Theory leads to another Experiment..so on..
                              Rgds,
                              Faraday88
                              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                              Comment

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