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Bedini 1984, 2017 style.

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  • #46
    Ok I see where you're going,

    Im not up to that stage yet, this is the wiring for the basic diode test.
    So many combinations, so little time.

    If you have any circuits you wish me to try send them through.

    Diode.JPG


    Originally posted by Bradley Malone View Post
    When , let's say for example, a North Pole is approaching a core it is attracted in. That's a definite. The voltage induced in the coil would be of the polarity that if "used" would cause the core, the end near the magnet, to become a North and would resist the approach.

    Take the same magnet aligned with the core and pull it away, the induced voltage will cause south in the end of the core near the magnet which would resist the magnet "leaving".

    If you are saying that you allow the magnet to be pulled in untill tdc then use the current created from there on untill they are completely separated....then that is just using half of the wave that will cause half of the drag. That mixed with the momentum added to the flywheel from the approach of said magnet sounds like it would be "low drag" but really it is the same.

    Here is why. The voltage induced is due to "rate of change" in the core. If you allow the approach to add momentum to the flywheel from the attraction without "using" the induced voltage then you get more speed. Then as the magnet leaves the core that "speed" creates a higher rate of change therefore inducing a larger voltage that will, when used, cause a larger drag on the magnet leaving the core.

    So in essence you are making a trade that works out the same. Not using the voltage on the approach gives higher speed which in turn gives you more voltage when the magnet leaves the core causing more drag so it equals out to the same as if you just used it like a normal generator.

    When a magnet is approaching, the rate of change peaks before and after tdc. When the magnet approaches the core, as the face of the magnet starts to align with the coil the voltage on a scope will start to rise to a peak. That peak is before tdc when the magnet is about 1/2 to 3/4 coverage of the core. From that point untill tdc the magnet is not putting any more magnetism into the core and the voltage drops to zero at tdc. Same goes for the magnet leaving. The charge in the core is being lowered by the removal of the magnet from the core causing a negative peak somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 of the alignment. So if you utilize the time when the magnet face is half way aligned with the core on approach and use the induced voltage untill it is half way aligned on the exit. The voltage induced and the drag induced will be MORE vertical than horizontal and will therefore not effect the speed. The core will still be a North to resist approach of a North Pole and south to resist the leaving of a North Pole. But if those poles are only there when most of the resistance would be vertical into the wheel it will not cause a drag proportional to the energy you are using.
    Last edited by Deuis; 03-05-2018, 02:27 AM.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

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    • #47
      The only way I know of to do what I am talking about is mechanical or brushed contacts. Solid state would require some kind of peak detection and that just seems like to much when you can just set up a brush contact on one wire.

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      • #48
        I'm sure I could do that.
        If im testing all variants I may as well test all switching too.
        Challenge.jpg


        Originally posted by Bradley Malone View Post
        The only way I know of to do what I am talking about is mechanical or brushed contacts. Solid state would require some kind of peak detection and that just seems like to much when you can just set up a brush contact on one wire.
        Cant spend it when your dead.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Bradley Malone View Post
          Correct me if I am wrong....but I believe the idea behind the data is this. Bedini didn't always have the motor section and generator section in one coil as in the sg. He had (I believe) just a pulse circuit like the SG that was very efficient and used that with a flywheel as the prime mover and a generator section of "low drag" coils. From what I have read in this post it appears that what is being tested are the variables for the generator side only. If you know what the best setup is for generation... what gap, magnet configuration, type of magnets ect can produce the best output for a given input, frequency, ect....then from that you can figure out the best setup would be. For instance to many magnets on a wheel cause there to be interference and no "complete off time" in the coils because as one magnet leaves another approaches. So in theory with all the data you can decide what configuration will give you the most out with the least in. From there move on to the prime mover and test multiple configurations against the known best generator configuration.
          Hi Bradley Malone,
          I suggest one to read the SG Advanced Hand book to get an overview and insight into the various intercasies of MOTORING...GENERATORING...ENERGISERING..and the corresponding switching methods employed for each of the functions.
          Its like you have Speed gain in the SG and Torque gain in the 1984 machine but not both at the same time!
          Have you explored combining the 1984 and 2000SG all in one!!
          just my few cents and food for thought
          Best Regards,
          Faraday88.
          Last edited by Faraday88; 03-06-2018, 06:52 AM. Reason: correction in spell
          'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

          Comment


          • #50
            Faraday. Yes the advanced book is great. But I always keep an open mind about the fact that anybody can be wrong. Even bedini could have missed something that could have added to his design to do something different or more output etc... So when it comes to testing why not try anything and just see. Experience is the best teacher.

            I actually do a great deal of testing but struggle with extreme ADHD so writing up information into a readable format that can help someone is just not a strong suit. I am however working on a microcontroller circuit for switching motors generators or coil shorting, really anything
            precisely with mechanical relays because of the benefits from a solid make/ break connection instead if trying to use a thousand different transistors to find the best one. The controller is being set up to measure rpm while sensing exact position of rotor magnets with many variables so I can connect or disconnect anything at any point I want. When I get it finished debuged and tested I was planning on offering the code on here or even a complete unit with relay module so people can just get it hook it up and experiment with any timing scenario they would want.
            Last edited by Bradley Malone; 03-06-2018, 10:50 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Bradley Malone View Post
              Faraday. Yes the advanced book is great. But I always keep an open mind about the fact that anybody can be wrong. Even bedini could have missed something that could have added to his design to do something different or more output etc... So when it comes to testing why not try anything and just see. Experience is the best teacher.

              I actually do a great deal of testing but struggle with extreme ADHD so writing up information into a readable format that can help someone is just not a strong suit. I am however working on a microcontroller circuit for switching motors generators or coil shorting, really anything
              precisely with mechanical relays because of the benefits from a solid make/ break connection instead if trying to use a thousand different transistors to find the best one. The controller is being set up to measure rpm while sensing exact position of rotor magnets with many variables so I can connect or disconnect anything at any point I want. When I get it finished debuged and tested I was planning on offering the code on here or even a complete unit with relay module so people can just get it hook it up and experiment with any timing scenario they would want.
              Hi Bradley Malone,
              I'm glad to here about the mind set and the approach you have!!.. yes open mindedness is indeed the way to go ahead!! and as you rightly said : 'Experience is the best teacher' I call it as the first handed experimenting..and ofcourse we all can be wrong..because Science can be interprtead in many ways...its like we speak different langauges but in the end mean the same thing!
              JB nonetheless was always candid in what he stated..we woe him a lot, he was a novel experimenter i must say!!
              Best Regards,
              Faraday88.
              Last edited by Faraday88; 03-07-2018, 02:16 AM. Reason: correction
              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

              Comment


              • #52
                SG assissted

                I have now hooked up the SG circuit to the 8 filar 18ga coil.
                Under power assist I can dial down to a speed where the transistors are only just firing and maintain that speed.
                I've had it running on 5 pulses per pass charging a large capacitor bank up over 300V.
                Primary 12V running at 1A on an analogue meter.
                Air gap 16mm, ive been running it in and out but nothing substantial yet.
                I can now ignore the motoring effect and focus on the best charging rate.
                IMG_20180616_120825795.jpg
                Cant spend it when your dead.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Deuis View Post
                  I have now hooked up the SG circuit to the 8 filar 18ga coil.
                  Under power assist I can dial down to a speed where the transistors are only just firing and maintain that speed.
                  I've had it running on 5 pulses per pass charging a large capacitor bank up over 300V.
                  Primary 12V running at 1A on an analogue meter.
                  Air gap 16mm, ive been running it in and out but nothing substantial yet.
                  I can now ignore the motoring effect and focus on the best charging rate.
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]6941[/ATTACH]
                  Hi Deuis,
                  I see that your strands are not sufficiently
                  twisted... you said its an 8-filar coil is that including the trigger??
                  Best Regards,
                  Faraday88.
                  'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Please dont clog up this post.
                    This is a standard SG setup with an assisted motor.
                    8 filar coil, 1 trigger, 7 Power.
                    You can see the Potentiometer.
                    Surely you must know this by now.
                    Cant spend it when your dead.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Deuis View Post
                      Please dont clog up this post.
                      This is a standard SG setup with an assisted motor.
                      8 filar coil, 1 trigger, 7 Power.
                      You can see the Potentiometer.
                      Surely you must know this by now.
                      Sure go ahead!!
                      'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Some Data on the standard SG with variable air gap.
                        I started at the closest setting of 3mm then walked it out 1mm at a time until the lowest speed did not trigger.
                        With motor assist i'm not relying on tuning to turn the rotor, it is a seperate isolated function of the circuit.
                        SG power usage is not calculated in this data.
                        The 50W resistor was running about 70degrees celsius.

                        Peak 3-6mm.JPG
                        Peak 7-10mm.JPG
                        Peak 10-15mm.JPG
                        Last edited by Deuis; 06-16-2018, 09:29 PM. Reason: Cleaned up the data.
                        Cant spend it when your dead.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Interesting experiment as above.
                          Typically the 12.7V power source could only ever supply .811W to a 199 ohm resistor.
                          After triggering, the stable voltage at the capacitor varies between 30-60V as results show.
                          The resistor was certainly too hot to touch (>50C) during the experiment probably indicating that a load between 7 and 18W is in the ball park. (12degrees Celsius ambient)
                          next experiment will involve varying the trigger resistance and I should be able to chart the most efficient combination of air gap and trigger resistance.
                          I'll use a 6mm air gap as it seems like a common number (1/4") which still aligns with my data.

                          Infra-red thermometer told me resistor was at 125 degrees celsius through last round of testing.
                          Resistors are typically rated to dissipate at a 70degree threshold indicating that it is dissipating >50W of power.
                          Can't see it in the meter's as yet....

                          Using calc's for 50W @ 199ohms = 100V @ .5A
                          Using backward calculations doesn't enthuse me but the heat is real??
                          Last edited by Deuis; 06-17-2018, 04:03 AM. Reason: Resistor measurement
                          Cant spend it when your dead.

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                          • #58
                            I'm surprised the resistor is getting that hot...

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                            • #59
                              Me too,
                              I swapped the 200ohm out for a 600ohm and same thing.
                              Voltage went up by about 40% and sat on about 80 degrees.
                              I hooked a 15W x 240V globe across it for a decent glow.
                              Cant spend it when your dead.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Does the resistor run cool without the power assist? i.e. just the SG pushing the wheel around?

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