Bedini 1984, 2017 style.

[Faraday88]

From another Thread, i hope this helps......

Hi Richard,

Ask your self why JB twist's up together the Trigger and all drive strands on SG/SSG coils (Energizer), JB also said not to twist the coils strands on a window motor or on a Zero Force Motor (Torque). What is going on with the Heaviside Flow around the wires, and how the twist effects the Polyting (sp) flow? What geometric patterns would various numbers of strands create in the Ather around the twisted strands....? Can you visualize these patterns in the Aether around a wire with the Bloch Wall in the center of the stretched out Strands? like a high line wire..... then what does the Ather/Heaviside Flow geometric patterns around a muilty strand twisted coil with various strand counts look like...?

Much like Litzed Magnet Wire in commercial app's.... Why...?

NOW, Ask your self why a muilty strand Twisted coil, with the strands in a series adding config like the Tesla Pancake Coil Patent, works better for a Genny coil than a single strand coil with the same length of wire.

Now visualize commercial Litzed Magnet Wire in a series adding config like the Tesla Pancake Coil Patent...... Or on a SG/SSG muilty strand coil..... why...?

Ask you self what would happen if you rotated that Genny coil 90deg to the rotor magnets much like a Window Motor and ZF motor works. How will that effect the drag on the rotor from that genny coil, compared to the standard core end facing the rotor if they are both shorted, and just current flowing through the coil (A Load on the Rotor)...?

Hi RS,
These are the correct Scientific ways of questioning that one must ponder with if he/she is to understand Broken Symmetry, Asymmetrization, intercepting 'wasted' component(Heaviside), Difference between ONE and MANY... and the Radiant Electricity.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[RS_]

From another Thread, i hope this helps......

Hi Richard,

Ask your self why JB twist's up together the Trigger and all drive strands on SG/SSG coils (Energizer), JB also said not to twist the coils strands on a window motor or on a Zero Force Motor (Torque). What is going on with the Heaviside Flow around the wires, and how the twist effects the Polyting (sp) flow? What geometric patterns would various numbers of strands create in the Ather around the twisted strands....? Can you visualize these patterns in the Aether around a wire with the Bloch Wall in the center of the stretched out Strands? like a high line wire..... then what does the Ather/Heaviside Flow geometric patterns around a muilty strand twisted coil with various strand counts look like...?

Much like Litzed Magnet Wire in commercial app's.... Why...?

NOW, Ask your self why a muilty strand Twisted coil, with the strands in a series adding config like the Tesla Pancake Coil Patent, works better for a Genny coil than a single strand coil with the same length of wire.

Now visualize commercial Litzed Magnet Wire in a series adding config like the Tesla Pancake Coil Patent...... Or on a SG/SSG muilty strand coil..... why...?

Ask you self what would happen if you rotated that Genny coil 90deg to the rotor magnets much like a Window Motor and ZF motor works. How will that effect the drag on the rotor from that genny coil, compared to the standard core end facing the rotor if they are both shorted, and just current flowing through the coil (A Load on the Rotor)...?

[Deuis]

- My magnets are set for the moment, double stacked 2X1X1/2". Spacing is set to 18 magnets on a 26" wheel.
- Core material i've played with a little, but its the diameter and length I will be devoting a bit of time to later.
Peter makes up with his core material by enlarging it inside the core. Does it need to be done this way or simply use a longer narrower core which you can wrap more turns on. Iron doesnt get effected like an air gap of sorts so is it simply chasing a mass of iron that compliments more turns for the same length of wire.
-Wire size and number of turns are my tricky one. A large size leads to minimal internal losses but reduces turn count, its a balancing act. I plan on doing an 18AWG gennie coil and compare them to the 23.
-The VA output is efficiency based for how much torque you need to arrest on your SG Prime mover.
-Magnet to core gap I can vary while the machine is running to tune fairly easy.
-The whole idea of the SG is to produce non-linear results so its a gray area.

The SG will certainly be used but there is so much groundwork data that needs to be done that its a while away.
In a perfect world the old soldiers would have posted this stuff already so everyone doesnt have to start from scratch and get no where.
I havent seen any good data. Either it doesnt exist or someone is hodling.

[min2oly]

Here you go Patrick I cleaned up the data and used a better meter.
Keep in mind that using a resistive load straight from the coil is not the way to drain the energy properly.
What configuration gennie coil have you found to be a good fit?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6983[/ATTACH]

Adding a genny to an SSG can be tricky if one hopes to optimize it's output. Some things to balance...

- strength, spacing and size of magnets
- coil core material, diameter, shape and length
- outer spool diameter and length
- wire size and number of turns
- how much voltage vs amps do you desire on the output
- magnet to core gap

- the motoring strength of SSG is critical as well as the speed at which it wants to run.

please, anyone, add more that would truly be relevant to a coils output as a generator only.

- Is a coils output truly liniar in voltage and amps to the number of winds?

Here is more food for thought:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...con.html#emcon
look at the "magnetic fields" string to start.

So now, if your desire is not to use the SSG as the prime mover, one still has to take into consideration all aspects of the motor being used to turn the wheel.

[Deuis]

Here you go Patrick I cleaned up the data and used a better meter.
Keep in mind that using a resistive load straight from the coil is not the way to drain the energy properly.
What configuration gennie coil have you found to be a good fit?

[Faraday88]

apples, oranges, bananas whatever you like...

All are fruits though...!
All are all... or each is the other..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,
1)Single coil or multi strand SSG , 2) Multi-coil SSG 3) Multi'turn' Coil SSG (30 coiler)..what next?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

apples, oranges, bananas whatever you like...

[Faraday88]

I must be a bit confused then. Are you testing a pure generator coil only?
I thought I've been reading you have hooked up the SG transistors to the coil?

I do understand this is a test rig and you are not too concerned with the 40 watts, however, if the ultimate goal is to ADD a generator coil to an SSG, the genny coil is going to be different than the on you come up with on this test rig.

What I have done is to get the "spec" SSG running, then add various coils to it adding and removing winds, changing core size/material, length of spool etc... this way I come up with the ultimate generator coil that my SSG "prime mover" can handle. Because all of this data needs to be compared to the SSG input/output.

You can also modify the SSG to handle various genny coils... It's all a huge balance of data, a bit of a nightmare which is why so many fail.

Keep up the good work - I might not understand everything you are doing here so don't let me distract.
KR - Patrick

Hi Patrick,
1)Single coil or multi strand SSG , 2) Multi-coil SSG 3) Multi Coil-'turn' Coil SSG (30 coiler)..what next?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,

This is not a bedini motor/energiser its a test rig, reading specific generator coil data.
The wheel is 26" and weighs over 5kilos with average aerodynamics, 40W is OK.

How do you design the perfect generator coil for your SG if you dont have any data to understand the nature of the coil specs?
If you want a coil to operate at peak with slower RPM's to suit your SG you change the parameters of your coil and test again.
Its all about efficiency.
A Standard SG has mechanical torque available for free which needs to be harvested as best you can.
This has the added benefit lowering the power consumption at the same time. (adding a fan to the rotor)
This experiment was to look at the best parameters for coils that I have in the shed, already wound.

I must be a bit confused then. Are you testing a pure generator coil only?
I thought I've been reading you have hooked up the SG transistors to the coil?

I do understand this is a test rig and you are not too concerned with the 40 watts, however, if the ultimate goal is to ADD a generator coil to an SSG, the genny coil is going to be different than the on you come up with on this test rig.

What I have done is to get the "spec" SSG running, then add various coils to it adding and removing winds, changing core size/material, length of spool etc... this way I come up with the ultimate generator coil that my SSG "prime mover" can handle. Because all of this data needs to be compared to the SSG input/output.

You can also modify the SSG to handle various genny coils... It's all a huge balance of data, a bit of a nightmare which is why so many fail.

Keep up the good work - I might not understand everything you are doing here so don't let me distract.
KR - Patrick

[Deuis]

Hi Patrick,

This is not a bedini motor/energiser its a test rig, reading specific generator coil data.
The wheel is 26" and weighs over 5kilos with average aerodynamics, 40W is OK.

How do you design the perfect generator coil for your SG if you dont have any data to understand the nature of the coil specs?
If you want a coil to operate at peak with slower RPM's to suit your SG you change the parameters of your coil and test again.
Its all about efficiency.
A Standard SG has mechanical torque available for free which needs to be harvested as best you can.
This has the added benefit lowering the power consumption at the same time. (adding a fan to the rotor)
This experiment was to look at the best parameters for coils that I have in the shed, already wound.

[min2oly]

Actually I've achieved some of the best COP with a little drag/friction/LOAD

Deuis, not trying to be weird about this, but 40W is quite a bit to move 18 magnets on a wheel at 300 rpm. I do understand where you are trying to go with this though. How can you say for sure that 300 rpm is where your coil would go in a friction free environment, and that magneto is not being added due to the external prime mover?

Thank you for sharing your data - Patrick

[Faraday88]

The wheel is PWM.
I've got a meter with better resolution I can use later on.
The output is highest at the highest speed, the experiment was to prove if there was a net gain across the coil which there was.
With a generator at 94% efficiency there should have been a net loss a across the coil.
The 40W is only bearing and air friction.
Isolating the prime mover was key to this as I can definitively compare inputs and outputs of the gennie coil, this hasn't been shown before as it's almost impossible to seperate the functions.
In Peter's measurements 100ohm actually stalled his motor, however his coil was a little different to this coil and he was running the sg prime mover.
I have no doubt that if you spent some good dollars on a perfectly balanced aerodynamic wheel in a vacuum chamber this would run ou with multiple coils.
The load itself lends to tuning, dissipating the power needs to be sufficiently strong enough to eject the magnet and long enough to resist it pulling back in. The higher the resistance the longer the dissipation time.

Excellent Deuis! However, Over-unity is a measure of COP, and recall that the Bedini Energizer is NOT a Motor per se, But an Energizer/ Accelerator that gains Energy over Time and settles at a rpm for the scale of its design/topology. so even if the system is placed around our regular climate (and not Vacuum) would still do what it does if designed correct.
While you are perfectly correct about the Frictional less rotor, the SSG design regulates itself to its scale and topology. Yes lower the friction, the better is the net COP
you must add the mechanical COP to get the effective COP.
Ideally, if you wish to keep the system self-running, install swapper mechanism of the batteries, and a Sinewave Inverter (ofcourse if you are running only SSG) to back feed via a Standard Charger/Constant Current to your primaries and a back -popper as well!.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Deuis]

The wheel is PWM.
I've got a meter with better resolution I can use later on.
The output is highest at the highest speed, the experiment was to prove if there was a net gain across the coil which there was.
With a generator at 94% efficiency there should have been a net loss a across the coil.
The 40W is only bearing and air friction.
Isolating the prime mover was key to this as I can definitively compare inputs and outputs of the gennie coil, this hasn't been shown before as it's almost impossible to seperate the functions.
In Peter's measurements 100ohm actually stalled his motor, however his coil was a little different to this coil and he was running the sg prime mover.
I have no doubt that if you spent some good dollars on a perfectly balanced aerodynamic wheel in a vacuum chamber this would run ou with multiple coils.
The load itself lends to tuning, dissipating the power needs to be sufficiently strong enough to eject the magnet and long enough to resist it pulling back in. The higher the resistance the longer the dissipation time.

[min2oly]

Focusing in on the 300RPM mark I have used varying resistances to simulate a load.
While the resolution on the ammeter is not adequate, the results confirm Peter's findings from the advanced book.
At 800ohms the .01A ticked down .65A equaling the motor input indicating no current being used but im sure down to the thousandth of an amp it would indicate more clearly.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6981[/ATTACH]

True, however, it was at +/-100 ohms where the output was at its highest. Good stuff!
40 watts seems like quite a bit of energy to throw at a prime mover. It might not be as easy to see data swings with that one? Have you considered adding PWM at this point, could help...
KR - Patrick

[Deuis]

Focusing in on the 300RPM mark I have used varying resistances to simulate a load.
While the resolution on the ammeter is not adequate, the results confirm Peter's findings from the advanced book.
At 800ohms the .01A ticked down .65A equaling the motor input indicating no current being used but im sure down to the thousandth of an amp it would indicate more clearly.