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  • Originally posted by DMANN View Post
    I'm thinking 5/8" round stock. I can expand the magnet set screw hole up to 5/8" to be used for the iron piece. Another option would be just to make a slot for a bigger magnet. A 3/4" X 3/4" cylinder magnet would fit. I can design whatever just let me know. It will be Monday night before I will be able to do anything. If you draw a design on paper and post a pic, I can see what you are describing. If everyone agrees on the "T" I will do that, but understand that you will only be able to fit about a 3/4" X 1/2" piece of iron in that spot.

    Mann
    The only reason to add the iron is if there is a desire to replicate what John was actually doing. He didn't in some of the plastic ZFM, but those were also to just demo the principle and were not full replications of his real ZFM designs.

    Yaro has shown incredible results with Aluminum so possibly John's original thinking on the ZFM was not completely correct. It definitely isn't the only way the motor will run. Iron would be heavier and would give a better flywheel effect - the aluminum would be lighter and dragged down a bit by the field from the coils, but apparently not that much according to what Yaro has already shared with us all.

    I just saw that your rotor is 2.5" diameter.

    If you use a square magnet 3/4 x 3/4 by 1/4 thick, you'd get more magnetism into the same slot compared to a disc magnet - about 20% more if they're the same N rating: http://www.magnet4less.com/product_i...products_id=29

    If you can make a 3/4 x 3/4 slot, then everyone could either put a full size magnet in there or maybe half magnet and half iron - the slot could be used both ways to compare.

    Here are N52 3/4 cubes: http://www.magnet4less.com/product_i...oducts_id=1010 with 76 pounds of pull on each one. If they're 3/4 x 3/4 discs, they'll probably be 63 pounds of pull ballpark.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

    Comment


    • [QUOTE If you can make a 3/4 x 3/4 slot, then everyone could either put a full size magnet in there or maybe half magnet and half iron - the slot could be used both ways to compare.[/QUOTE]

      That is what I will do. I may be able to do it first thing Sunday morning est.

      I have my designs set at +.009" to fit mags, shaft, bolts bolts, etc....on my machine. That equates to +.2286 mm.
      This does not seem to be an issue for anyone? I have not had any feedback on the prints. Feedback will help me.

      You may be able to fit larger magnets in the magnetic levitation supports if needed. That is if you are having lag issues. Also, for simplification, Maget4less has 2" ring magnets with 1/4" center holes. This may alleviate some balance issues. You could just slide and glue collets to each side of the magnet to keep it in place. Of course the down fall would be the permanence created.

      Thanks
      Mann
      Last edited by DMANN; 03-04-2017, 08:39 PM. Reason: add

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
        The only reason to add the iron is if there is a desire to replicate what John was actually doing. He didn't in some of the plastic ZFM, but those were also to just demo the principle and were not full replications of his real ZFM designs.

        Yaro has shown incredible results with Aluminum so possibly John's original thinking on the ZFM was not completely correct. It definitely isn't the only way the motor will run. Iron would be heavier and would give a better flywheel effect - the aluminum would be lighter and dragged down a bit by the field from the coils, but apparently not that much according to what Yaro has already shared with us all.

        I just saw that your rotor is 2.5" diameter.

        If you use a square magnet 3/4 x 3/4 by 1/4 thick, you'd get more magnetism into the same slot compared to a disc magnet - about 20% more if they're the same N rating: http://www.magnet4less.com/product_i...products_id=29

        If you can make a 3/4 x 3/4 slot, then everyone could either put a full size magnet in there or maybe half magnet and half iron - the slot could be used both ways to compare.

        Here are N52 3/4 cubes: http://www.magnet4less.com/product_i...oducts_id=1010 with 76 pounds of pull on each one. If they're 3/4 x 3/4 discs, they'll probably be 63 pounds of pull ballpark.
        The new rotor is listed with 3/4" X 3/4" slots. IMG_20170305_082234_207.jpg
        I had to add some meat on the bottom to hold it together good. You can see in the pic that the 3/4" squared slot left only a little room for plastic in spots.

        Mann
        Last edited by DMANN; 03-05-2017, 06:36 AM. Reason: add

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DMANN View Post
          The new rotor is listed with 3/4" X 3/4" slots. [ATTACH=CONFIG]6157[/ATTACH]
          I had to add some meat on the bottom to hold it together good. You can see in the pic that the 3/4" squared slot left only a little room for plastic in spots.

          Mann
          Dmann and others,

          I do not know the specific material specifications for the 3D plastic, however I will caution you on the the forces developed by the Neo's weight at high RPM's. The AL rotor was initially designed to retain the the Neo's easily up to 15,000 RPM and more. The 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's will produce a radial force of ~320 lbs each at that RPM - if the Neo's are increased in size to the 3/4" square/cube configuration for the given motor rotor of 2.5"D, well you better figure that each Neo is waiting to be launched with about 700 lbs. of force.

          So a word of caution is expressed here in that the RPM should be limited by starting out at a low input voltage of 12v and slowly working your way up. It is a given fact that increasing the power of the Neo's will increase the RPM for a given input voltage. This was observed when the AL rotor Neo's were increased from 1/4"T to 3/8"T and the grade from N40 to N52.

          It would not be surprising to see the ZFM accelerate at maximum voltage to well over 15000 RPM and much more with the larger Neo's. Be aware that the centrifugal force here is a function of the square of the velocity (RPM).

          Tread carefully and test responsibly - we still be in no man's land,
          Yaro
          Yaro

          "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Yaro1776 View Post
            Dmann and others,

            I do not know the specific material specifications for the 3D plastic, however I will caution you on the the forces developed by the Neo's weight at high RPM's. The AL rotor was initially designed to retain the the Neo's easily up to 15,000 RPM and more. The 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's will produce a radial force of ~320 lbs each at that RPM - if the Neo's are increased in size to the 3/4" square/cube configuration for the given motor rotor of 2.5"D, well you better figure that each Neo is waiting to be launched with about 700 lbs. of force.

            So a word of caution is expressed here in that the RPM should be limited by starting out at a low input voltage of 12v and slowly working your way up. It is a given fact that increasing the power of the Neo's will increase the RPM for a given input voltage. This was observed when the AL rotor Neo's were increased from 1/4"T to 3/8"T and the grade from N40 to N52.

            It would not be surprising to see the ZFM accelerate at maximum voltage to well over 15000 RPM and much more with the larger Neo's. Be aware that the centrifugal force here is a function of the square of the velocity (RPM).

            Tread carefully and test responsibly - we still be in no man's land,
            Yaro
            I think it would be impressive if the plastic rotor can go over 3-4000 rpm. Has anyone built a small plastic one yet that has posted speed results?
            Aaron Murakami





            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

            Comment


            • my 2 cents here.... I don't think a BIG neo is needed, we only need the fields to penetrate both sides of the coil, as long as it does this we can get the RPM we want without some of the forces Yaro is talking about. think about the colored cloverleaf Dave Wing posted. you can build that with 4 neo magnets and iron connecting then thru the center. I would not think that anything larger than a 1/2 by 1/2 by 2 inch long neo would be all we need. if you 3D printed in nylon or a carbon your strength would be there, and you could design the iron pole pieces to slide in to connect the fields before you slid in the magnets. you can make the magnets completely captive. perhaps a wider instead of thicker magnet is the answer.

              of course there are parameters we need to run in so there will be a best size ratio for the magnets... I also think perhaps speed can be achieved by having the timing advance as RPM changes. I don't know this for sure it is just a guess based on the SG work I have done


              Tom C
              Last edited by Tom C; 03-05-2017, 10:02 PM.


              experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

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              • Spring Follies

                Hello to @all,

                Progress on the ZFM Proto has continued from the last video 7B. The timing configuration was modified to a friendlier arrangement using a balanced 60 degree firing arc duration with the Aluminum rotor. This arrangement was then tested and data gathered for baseline comparison purposes and then the new Iron rotor was installed in the motor.

                For this post I will not include all the data, but will state that the overall performance between the Aluminum and Iron rotors is not really very different. Both rotors produce approximately the same RPM and amperage draw. Perhaps the iron rotor may have a bit more torque, but that is anecdotal based on the two finger shaft test.

                There was the intention of doing a video on the impact of timing on the operation of the ZFM along with its impact on RPM and amperage draw - but that will wait until it is needed for demonstration. For these above tests the combination of firing angle and advance have been kept within the constraints suggested by Peter Lindemman way earlier in this thread and that is less than a total of 90 degrees or so for the duration plus advance. All well within the degree arc coverage of a coil segment.

                There are a number of take-aways here:
                1) The duration of the firing arc will increase or decrease the amperage draw from the primary battery.
                2) The advance has a major impact on the amperage draw and final RPM.
                3) For nearly every configuration of Timing the ZFM will continue to build speed from the initial RPM value by ~5% or more for several minutes or more.
                4) The greatest torque and RPM are achieved by progressively increasing the operating voltage - ie. 12v, 24v, and 36v.
                5) The motor coils will normally warm up a bit over room temperature - usually by a maximum of ~5F.
                6) The Bipolar switch will certainly heat up quite a bit, but that is dependent on the firing arc duration and advance.

                Additional experimentation has demonstrated that the time required to energize and de-energize the existing coils is a critical factor in the ZFM's high speed operational modes and that the harmonics produced by the firing rate influence the value of the RPM and amperage draw.

                Another interesting observation is that this experimentation also appears to suggest the formation of the clover leaf pattern of the magnetic fields surrounding the coils as depicted in JB's Lab sketch, however further work on this has been put aside until later this summer. The current effort is to attach a small pump to the ZFM and physically pump water while collecting the relevant performance data - where the rubber meets the road.

                The above post may seem overly generalized, but it does contain many interesting nuggets for further thought and exploration.

                Happy Spring,
                Yaro
                Last edited by Yaro1776; 03-22-2017, 06:37 PM. Reason: Clarify firing arc suggestion
                Yaro

                "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                Comment


                • James's Zero Force Motor Build

                  This post is to show my build of the Zero Force Motor. I have been working on this since December 2016. The first
                  part that was made was the Iron Rotor and the 1/2 inch thick shaft at 12 inches long. The rotor and shaft were made
                  out of DoD quality iron. The data sheet on the Iron claimed it to be 99.7% pure. The coil forms were cut from a 4
                  inch PVC pipe connector. The coil form center was cut to be 1 inch thick. The magnet wire size used was 18 gauge. The
                  length of magnet wire on each half of the toriod shaped coil is 450 feet. Giving me a total DC resistance of 6.0 ohms.
                  The bearings used were Baldor Dodge pillow block type part number 129150 or P2B-GT-008. Since these bearing have
                  dust covers on them you will have to remove the metal covers off the bearings and clean out the white grease inside.
                  I called the Baldor Dodge people and found out I should have been sold part number 139553. These are easier to take
                  apart due to they have a rubber insert under the dust cover and are rated for 14,500 RPM operating. The bearings I
                  have are rated at 12,500 RPM. The firing timing wheel has Neo Magnets and Reed Switches. The Neo magnets are
                  mounted at 0 degrees and 180 degrees. The Reed switches are mounted at 0 degrees and 90 degrees. The driving
                  circuit is the standard Bedini-Cole circuit using Audio Power Transistors. The initial run data is listed below.

                  Powering Voltage - Measured Current - Measured RPM (Speed)

                  12 volts -------------- 0.70 amps ---------- 2824

                  24 volts -------------- 0.69 amps ---------- 5859

                  36 volts -------------- 0.78 amps ---------- 6981


                  Enjoy the video


                  https://youtu.be/uiMZZ0_0X10


                  -- James McDonald

                  Comment


                  • James,

                    Thanks for this. While I started the thread, I am taking a six month/year hiatus to focus more heavily on practical matters. It is wonderful to see this initiative generating so much excellent work and research. No doubt the ZFM is an interesting and confusing machine, which is sometimes the best type. While this doesn't relate to the ZFM I want to throw one more idea out at this board as I just don't have time for it now. I was thinking about Mu-metal and how its permeability is 10-100 times that of steel and thinking people have home brewed other cores, can Mu-metal be home brewed? Looking at the melting points involved I was first thinking well maybe with a water torch when it also occurred to me there are "powdered cores". From a two minute glance the materials involved in Mu-metal are 1) readily available as powders 2) not too expensive 3) not too toxic. I don't see why one couldn't just mix it all together and throw it in a PVC pipe, maybe melt it in some bees wax if you wanted it to keep its shape. Haven't done this yet and simply don't have time at the moment, but something to think about, and it is high on my list of experiments when I get a chance to do a bit more in this area. BTW James, you are just down the street from me in Bethesda, if you ever want to grab a cup of coffee or tea let me know.

                    Comment


                    • ZFM Conference Update

                      Hello to All,

                      I had the pleasure of attending the 2017 Energy Conference and presenting a short history on the evolution of the ZFM from the late John Bedini's Zero Vacuum Engine (~ 1976) to the present day machine. This was based on access to Bedini's notes and input from other sources. There will be a video and E-book of all this along with specific design information and Bedini's Lab notes in the near future.

                      At this Conference we had three different ZFM's lined up and all were operated for up close and personal viewing. Peter Lindemann brought his 2016 Conference Demo and lined it up with the James McDonald and Yaro ZFM's. Quite a bit of activity at this table with many conference participants inspecting the three models. Can't get any better than that.

                      Peter L. had his variable DC power supply there and we had the opportunity to test run the motors with voltages up to 60v rather than the usual max of 36v. The higher voltages were useful to test the robustness of the Bipolar Switch circuits. The maximum RPM's on the machines did not increase that much - perhaps 10-15 percent. There appears to be a limitation relating either to the reed switches or the coil amperage polarity reversal frequency. More to research.

                      Peter had an important update on the physical spec's for the iron rotor and motor Neo's. The motor Neo's are increased to 1"D x 3/8"T and the square iron rotor to 1.3" per side with a 1" length. Check out the attached photo. This update is very useful and I have already sent one my rotors to the machine shop and ordered the 1" Neo's. Expect to have some initial test runs and data in August. The torque of the PL ZFM is significantly greater than the McD and Yaro ZFM's that use a 1.2" square rotor and 3/4"D x 3/8"T Neo's (YZFM) with 3/4"D x 1/2"T (McDZFM). Also attached is a pic of the ZFM Builders at the conference - left to right James, Peter and Yaro.


                      Also presented were o-scope screen shots of the ZFM coil voltage cycle that show a small Lenz effect - I anticipate that James McD will post and elaborate in more detail on this in the near future.

                      Yaro
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Yaro1776; 07-13-2017, 08:25 AM. Reason: Y and McD Neo Size Clarification
                      Yaro

                      "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                      Comment


                      • ZFM Comparison Info

                        Hello to all,

                        A further elaboration on the previous ZFM post with a few more specifics.

                        The PL ZFM from 2002 was demonstrated by Peter using his variable DC voltage power supply. Very slick setup that removes the batteries from the equation, yet allows enough amperage to drive the ZFM up to about 60v. The PL ZFM draws a relatively constant 0.4 amps when it is running at speed. As the speed increases with greater voltage the amp draw remains relatively constant, however the old two finger torque test will increase the amp draw as the RPM drops off. Very impressed with this model's torque, bearing in mind that the shaft diameter is 3/8" in comparison to the 1/2" shaft on the other two ZFM's. I believe that the machine was pushed to over 12,000 RPM before an internal clamping bolt came loose, it was later repaired by Peter. Peter stated that he has had the motor up to 14,500 RPM.

                        The basic arrangement for this motor is about an 18 degree advance and 60 degree firing dwell or duration as I recall, different from the original 10-15 degree advance and 45-50 degree duration. The Bipolar switch circuit board stayed cool during his demonstration. Peter also modified the timing wheel adjustment to allow fine tuning tweaks to the advance.

                        The McD ZFM was operated at various DC voltages up to the high 50's. His new Bipolar Switch board held up to the voltages and ran cool, no issues. I believe that the maximum RPM was close to 9,000 - no amp data since the clamp-on meter was left in the shipping box in the Conference room. Aaron provided some three AGM 35Ah deep cycle batteries that worked very well when connected in the 36v series loop. The prolonged run times during the conference did not impact the original standing voltage of 13+v very much.

                        The Y ZFM operated, after tweaking, at about 11,400 RPM with an amp draw of 08-1.0 at 36v. About a 65 degree firing duration and 40 degree advance. When the later acid test of max voltage of 60v was applied the machine cranked up to ~13,400 RPM, no issues here, missed the amp draw read. As mentioned in the previous post there appears to be a performance wall as the voltage is increased with the RPM not increasing as much as anticipated. The reed switches are being stressed at this RPM where they are firing at well over 400Hz, way over the recommended maximum operating spec for these particular reed switches.

                        So the take aways here are as follows: The magnet size should be 1"D x 3/8"T for maximum torque development and speed, the reed switches or some other factors are limiting further speed gains and the variable voltage power supply removes the need for multiple batteries for higher voltage testing. All is good!

                        My personal take away is that the ZFM design, when properly executed, will produce some very interesting and surprising performance numbers. We will have to wait for the test data after the modifications are completed in August.

                        Special thanks to Peter Lindemann and James McDonald for making the effort to share their machines and knowledge with everyone at the Conference. Certainly made this a unique event.

                        Yaro
                        Yaro

                        "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                        Comment


                        • I posted something here last night after your first post Yaro and now its not here!

                          Thank you for helping us make history with a very comprehensive disclosure of John's ZFM in a way that made history and I hope it becomes as popular as the SG.

                          And thank you James for bringing your replication to show that it can indeed be replicated.

                          3 ZFM's in total that are built right - can't argue with that!

                          Your presentation is scheduled to be the first one released next Tuesday the 18th.

                          It will come with the recorded presentation, the powerpoint and a pdf e-book with a compilation of notes from the forum, diagrams, relevant lab notes (showed up a little dark on the projector screen), etc... it will be THE package to have for anyone interested in the ZFM for sure.

                          The video available will be roughly 1GB in size and will be a MP4 in a zip file like usual. That will be the normal resolution of 1280x720 or so. As time permits, we'll try to upload a higher resolution version that may be 1.5 to 2GB in size also 1280x720 at no extra cost. Just login with the same credentials and download it when it is available on the same download page.

                          Yaro, I'll be emailing you some stuff to review.
                          Aaron Murakami





                          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                            I posted something here last night after your first post Yaro and now its not here!

                            Thank you for helping us make history with a very comprehensive disclosure of John's ZFM in a way that made history and I hope it becomes as popular as the SG.

                            And thank you James for bringing your replication to show that it can indeed be replicated.

                            3 ZFM's in total that are built right - can't argue with that!

                            Your presentation is scheduled to be the first one released next Tuesday the 18th.

                            It will come with the recorded presentation, the powerpoint and a pdf e-book with a compilation of notes from the forum, diagrams, relevant lab notes (showed up a little dark on the projector screen), etc... it will be THE package to have for anyone interested in the ZFM for sure.

                            The video available will be roughly 1GB in size and will be a MP4 in a zip file like usual. That will be the normal resolution of 1280x720 or so. As time permits, we'll try to upload a higher resolution version that may be 1.5 to 2GB in size also 1280x720 at no extra cost. Just login with the same credentials and download it when it is available on the same download page.

                            Yaro, I'll be emailing you some stuff to review.

                            Hi Aaron --

                            Thank You for the acknowledgement of my Zero Force Motor Build and for letting me bring it to the 2017 Energy & Technology Conference.
                            The conference was overall a very good conference and it ended with a presentation pack full of information on the Zero Force Motor. This presentation surely kept every one glued to their seats from start to finish. I am looking forward to its release and it's one of the videos I intend on purchasing myself. If you were not present at the 2017 Energy & Technology conference you missed a very good conference. If you intend on building a Zero Force Motor or just want some more information then this presentation is a must have.

                            -- James

                            Comment


                            • Theory of Operation of the Zero Force Motor Circuit

                              The Zero Force Motor is comprised of a shaft mounted iron rotor with four Neo magnets mounted 90 degrees apart in a N-S-N-S configuration. Two opposing coils of 90 degree arc, each with ~280-300 ft of #20AWG, are wired in series and surround the rotor. When the power switch is turned on voltage is applied from the Bi-Polar Switching circuit to the Zero Force Motor coil creating a current flow, a magnetic field builds up in the coil just enough to oppose the magnetic field of the rotor magnets thus initiating movement. The coil’s opposing magnetic field rotates the rotor just enough to cause one of the reed switches to close, thus grounding the base of one of the PNP driver BJT transistor, which in turn causes current to flow from the emitter to the collector of that transistor. This current flow in turn drives the base of the NPN output stage BJT transistor. This current flow drives through the coil in one direction for up to 60 to 70 degrees of rotation of the timing wheel which controls the on time of the BJT NPN transistor. At the same time, the reed switch is closed, this drives the base of the output PNP BJT transistor. The BJT PNP transistor turns on and drives the coil in the same direction as the current flow. Once the timing wheel reaches the turn on point of the second reed switch, which is mounted 90 degrees from the first reed switch at 0 degrees, the second BJT transistor set will drive current through the coil in the opposite direction.
                              The magnetic field in the coil builds up with each rotation of the rotor due to the rotor magnets inducing their magnetic field into the coils of the Zero Force Motor. The coils’ magnetic field in turn causes the rotor to spin faster till it reaches 5 time constants of on-time from the applied electromotive force. The switching of current flow from one side of the coil to the other has a Lenz spike effect of almost double the applied electromotor force.

                              -- James

                              Comment


                              • Hello to all,

                                I have read through all the posts (I don't think I missed any, at least) and I still have a really simple question: what is the practical use of the Zero Force motor?

                                I came to this forum by stumbling across the SSG. I've bought the books and am making plans to build it; but, my ADD kicked in and I've found myself bing-reading these forums (incredible work and God bless those who've shared enough to keep my interest!). For those of us that are just starting into this, it would be helpful to know something practical about the devices JB developed & inspired. If it's just something to do because it's cool & the world says it can't be done, that's fine too.

                                Thank you,
                                Drew

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