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Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

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  • Hi Ron,

    As you said, theoretically it should work!

    I still have a few questions though.

    #1 - Did you splice the negative coil wire from the igniter and MSD white wire together inside the distributor or outside of the distributor? (Where is the splice located?)

    #2 - Which MSD wire did you splice to the other coil wire coming from the igniter and where is this splice physically located?

    #3 - Do you still have a condenser fastened to the positive coil wire coming from the igniter that the other MSD wire is spliced to?

    I'm wondering about Radio Frequency Interference to either the igniter, or the MSD module, or between the two (or maybe even the magnetic pickup and computer and wiring). Fastening a wire to the T-junction may cause it to become an antenna with nothing else attached.

    #4 - Did you fasten the High Voltage Diode up to both the T-junction and coil positive at the same time to check for plasma? Or did you only try running the engine with the diode completely removed? (Wondering about RFI from an open antenna effect.)
    Gary Hammond,

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gary Hammond View Post
      Hi Ron,

      As you said, theoretically it should work!

      I still have a few questions though.

      #1 - Did you splice the negative coil wire from the igniter and MSD white wire together inside the distributor or outside of the distributor? (Where is the splice located?)

      #2 - Which MSD wire did you splice to the other coil wire coming from the igniter and where is this splice physically located?

      #3 - Do you still have a condenser fastened to the positive coil wire coming from the igniter that the other MSD wire is spliced to?

      I'm wondering about Radio Frequency Interference to either the igniter, or the MSD module, or between the two (or maybe even the magnetic pickup and computer and wiring). Fastening a wire to the T-junction may cause it to become an antenna with nothing else attached.

      #4 - Did you fasten the High Voltage Diode up to both the T-junction and coil positive at the same time to check for plasma? Or did you only try running the engine with the diode completely removed? (Wondering about RFI from an open antenna effect.)
      #1 - At first I spliced to the negative coil wire inside the distributor and now I have it outside the distributor
      #2 - No other MSD wire is connected to the other coil wire but I did try connecting the small red wire to the positive wire of the coil and it ran the same
      #3 - No
      #4 - I did both, there was some VERY strong spark/plasma but it would only run 5 - 10 seconds before completely shutting off

      Somehow RFI must be the problem but it doesn't matter whether it is an open wire or closed with a diode??? How can it be soooo sensitive with only one wire and/or diode connected?

      Comment


      • Hi Ron,

        I'm about to run out of ideas, but thought of a few things you might want to try to see if RFI is really the culprit here.

        #1- Be sure all your connections are good and solid - no resistance. This includes all grounding connections.

        #2 - Install capacitors to all 12 volt positive connections of the MSD module, the igniter, and the computer to help filter out RFI. These need to be as close to each component as possible.

        #3 - Use shielded cable to hook up the diodes to both the coil and the T-junction and be sure to ground the shield.

        #4 - If none of this helps try putting a Faraday cage around the computer fabricated out of steel screen or hardware cloth.
        Gary Hammond,

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gary Hammond View Post
          Hi Ron,

          I'm about to run out of ideas, but thought of a few things you might want to try to see if RFI is really the culprit here.

          #1- Be sure all your connections are good and solid - no resistance. This includes all grounding connections.

          #2 - Install capacitors to all 12 volt positive connections of the MSD module, the igniter, and the computer to help filter out RFI. These need to be as close to each component as possible.

          #3 - Use shielded cable to hook up the diodes to both the coil and the T-junction and be sure to ground the shield.

          #4 - If none of this helps try putting a Faraday cage around the computer fabricated out of steel screen or hardware cloth.
          Great ideas!
          #1 has been done
          #2 I will have to try that, any ideas that would be good for cap values? I am assuming polarized caps, right?
          #3 I used some tv cable and grounded the shield that surrounds the cable with no difference in performance (it still misses)
          #4 I will have to give that a try also

          Thank you for all of your great ideas!

          Comment


          • I still don't understand WHY when only one wire is attached to 1 T junction that goes to the top of 1 spark plug and the other end is attached to NOTHING WHY does it cause the engine to mis-fire so badly it won't run???

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rokan View Post
              I still don't understand WHY when only one wire is attached to 1 T junction that goes to the top of 1 spark plug and the other end is attached to NOTHING WHY does it cause the engine to mis-fire so badly it won't run???
              Can the RF be that strong to completely disrupt the whole ignition circuit to completely mis-fire?

              Comment


              • Hi Ron,

                Originally posted by rokan View Post
                Can the RF be that strong to completely disrupt the whole ignition circuit to completely mis-fire?
                The longer the antenna is, the stronger the RFI signal is. If RFI is really the problem, you should be able to pick it up pretty loudly on a small portable radio held under the hood of the vehicle. And probably even on the vehicle's own radio. (And maybe even the neighbor's radio which the FCC won't like. )

                If instead something is shorting out, you should be able to see it after dark.

                any ideas that would be good for cap values? I am assuming polarized caps, right?
                I would use whatever value the original cap in your distributor is. Or you could use caps like were used on old points and condenser ignition systems. They also used to have caps on the vibrating voltage regulators and even on the brushes of the old DC generators. As best I can remember, these fell somewhere between .47uf and 3mf at from 25 volts to 150 volts.
                Last edited by Gary Hammond; 09-05-2018, 11:40 AM. Reason: correct spelling
                Gary Hammond,

                Comment


                • Ron, what is the exact part # of your ignition coil? Nology got back to me and they can confirm a few things.
                  Aaron Murakami





                  You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                    Ron, what is the exact part # of your ignition coil? Nology got back to me and they can confirm a few things.
                    I think it is the PFC-M70, it's been a LONG time since I bought it?? Pretty sure that is it.
                    Yep, double checked it and it is the M70.
                    Last edited by rokan; 09-07-2018, 12:21 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                      Ron, what is the exact part # of your ignition coil? Nology got back to me and they can confirm a few things.
                      Hi Aaron,
                      Did you have a chance to speak with Nology yet?
                      Thx,
                      Ron

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rokan View Post
                        Hi Aaron,
                        Did you have a chance to speak with Nology yet?
                        Thx,
                        Ron
                        I sent the info but didn't hear back.

                        Ryan@Nology.com - Ryan Brewer

                        This is what I asked:

                        Does the Nology Profire coil output HV positive or HV negative?

                        Is this coil suitable for the MSD Street Fire MSD unit? Is it compatible with capacitive discharge?

                        What is the resistance for the primary? What is the resistance of the hv secondary?

                        Thanks!

                        If you can email him with the same questions, maybe that will prompt a response. Give the model # of the coil with the questions of course.

                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post


                          I sent the info but didn't hear back.

                          Ryan@Nology.com - Ryan Brewer

                          This is what I asked:

                          Does the Nology Profire coil output HV positive or HV negative?

                          Is this coil suitable for the MSD Street Fire MSD unit? Is it compatible with capacitive discharge?

                          What is the resistance for the primary? What is the resistance of the hv secondary?

                          Thanks!

                          If you can email him with the same questions, maybe that will prompt a response. Give the model # of the coil with the questions of course.

                          Here's the response I received from Ryan:
                          Does my Nology Profire PFC-M70 coil output HV positive or HV negative?

                          positive

                          Is my coil suitable for the MSD Street Fire MSD unit? Is it compatible with capacitive discharge?

                          M75 would be better, but M70 will work

                          What is the resistance for the primary?

                          .25 Ohm

                          What is the resistance of the hv secondary?

                          8 Ohm

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rokan View Post
                            Here's the response I received from Ryan:
                            Does my Nology Profire PFC-M70 coil output HV positive or HV negative?

                            positive

                            Is my coil suitable for the MSD Street Fire MSD unit? Is it compatible with capacitive discharge?

                            M75 would be better, but M70 will work

                            What is the resistance for the primary?

                            .25 Ohm

                            What is the resistance of the hv secondary?

                            8 Ohm
                            That makes things simple being positive - always my preference.

                            That resistance is pretty low too - looks good.

                            If the hv output is truly positive, then this is how the diodes should be pointed. This of course doesn't address you possible rf problem, which I'm not so sure about or igniter issue if there is one.



                            Just to re-confirm, is this how you have your diodes or had your diodes?
                            Attached Files
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                              That makes things simple being positive - always my preference.

                              That resistance is pretty low too - looks good.

                              If the hv output is truly positive, then this is how the diodes should be pointed. This of course doesn't address you possible rf problem, which I'm not so sure about or igniter issue if there is one.



                              Just to re-confirm, is this how you have your diodes or had your diodes?
                              Yes and I did try them reversed and it wouldn't run at all.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rokan View Post
                                Yes and I did try them reversed and it wouldn't run at all.
                                Any ideas of how we can get this to work???

                                Comment

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