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Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

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  • I have checked and re-checked my junction and it isn't shorting there. If it was it would only be the one wire/cylinder shorting and would still run on 3 cylinders but all 4 cylinders start misfiring at the same time even though I have only installed one of my modified wires to test with?
    Those are my thoughts exactly, that some RFI is disrupting the signal for all of the cylinders. This exact problem occurred before I installed the HV coil or the MSD unit. Originally I put copper rods down inside the plug boots to make contact with the connector that clips to the top of the plug to get a direct connection to my plugs without any resistance and the problem was the same even with all the stock equipment, as soon as I connected a wire to my plug rod it would start mis-firing on all 4 cylinders.

    Comment


    • Hi Rokan,

      What triggers your ignition system? Points and condenser? Inductive pickup? Hall effect pickup?
      Gary Hammond,

      Comment


      • I'm sorry, @rokan. I'm wrong and the experts are arriving with ideas and input to resolve your difficulties and teach me a few things.
        (Not really sorry: mission accomplished. This place is a bit too quiet at times, and a cry from the wilderness can go unheard from what I've seen, until some action starts on a topic.)

        Comment


        • I'm going to draw everything out just so there is no question about anything.

          What is the part # for your MSD?
          What is the part # for your Ignition Coil make/model?

          What wire are you using to trigger the MSD? Which color(s)?
          Aaron Murakami





          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
            I'm going to draw everything out just so there is no question about anything.

            What is the part # for your MSD?
            What is the part # for your Ignition Coil make/model?

            What wire are you using to trigger the MSD? Which color(s)?
            Hi Aaron, is the MSD 5520 ($144.42 on Amazon) good for my '73 Dodge pickup with the 440 engine and factory electronic ignition which uses a magnetic pickup?
            I'm using the Pertronics 0.3 ohm Flamethrower coil.
            Thanks.

            Richard Gieser

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
              I'm going to draw everything out just so there is no question about anything.

              What is the part # for your MSD?
              What is the part # for your Ignition Coil make/model?

              What wire are you using to trigger the MSD? Which color(s)?
              Hi Aaron,
              If you are talking to me I have the Street Fire #5520
              Coil I have is Nology ProFire
              I am using orange and black to the coil, white and small red to the old internal distributor coil wires
              I can't seem to find the info for what kind of pickup this distributor uses so I don't know?

              Thanks,
              Ron

              Comment


              • Not points and condenser
                Not sure if it is inductive or hall?
                Do you have an easy way to determine which it is?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Richard View Post
                  Hi Aaron, is the MSD 5520 ($144.42 on Amazon) good for my '73 Dodge pickup with the 440 engine and factory electronic ignition which uses a magnetic pickup?
                  I'm using the Pertronics 0.3 ohm Flamethrower coil.
                  Thanks.

                  Richard Gieser
                  I'm guessing it would be I would double check directly with MSD though because I'm not familiar with that truck or engine. If the ignition coils has a simple + and - primary input with a single HV output that goes to a distributor cap, then it should work fine but please don't take my word for it.

                  Here is the instruction/data sheet for the street fire module with about half a dozen or more hookup situations. You can probably find your exact one in there and if so, should work fine. They're all pretty standard back then. https://www.jegs.com/InstallationIns...1/121-5520.pdf
                  Aaron Murakami





                  You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                    I'm guessing it would be I would double check directly with MSD though because I'm not familiar with that truck or engine. If the ignition coils has a simple + and - primary input with a single HV output that goes to a distributor cap, then it should work fine but please don't take my word for it.

                    Here is the instruction/data sheet for the street fire module with about half a dozen or more hookup situations. You can probably find your exact one in there and if so, should work fine. They're all pretty standard back then. https://www.jegs.com/InstallationIns...1/121-5520.pdf
                    Thank you, Aaron.

                    Richard Gieser

                    Comment


                    • I have come to the conclusion that this cannot be done on my 1996 Toyota Tacoma pickup!
                      If ANYTHING is attached to the top of the plug, like needs to be for the HV to be transferred, it goes wacky and crossfires and misfires to the point it will not run!
                      For some odd reason the way the distributor electronics work on this particular vehicle it just will not let it be modified to run plasma, period!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rokan View Post
                        Hi Aaron,
                        If you are talking to me I have the Street Fire #5520
                        Coil I have is Nology ProFire
                        I am using orange and black to the coil, white and small red to the old internal distributor coil wires
                        I can't seem to find the info for what kind of pickup this distributor uses so I don't know?

                        Thanks,
                        Ron


                        The orange and black to the ignition coil is correct.

                        The small red wire from the MSD should be going to your ignition switch, which connects it to the 12v battery + when the key is turned on. It should not be going to your distributor.

                        Violet and Green with the little plug are for the magnetic pickup for most electronic ignitions.

                        White is for mechanical points.

                        You have a 96 - I'd be very surprised if you actually have points. If not, there should be 2 wires coming from the distributor for magnetic pickup. Most likely they are red and green. Red goes to the violet wire and green goes to the green wire. If they are different colors, it shouldn't matter because the magnetic pickup just shorts those wires like a reed switch closing. If at least one wire matches green or violet, then at least connect the like color.

                        You said you have the little red and white going to the distributor - that definitely sounds incorrect to me.

                        If you have points, you'd probably only have 1 wire coming from the distributor that simply connects the white wire in the msd to ground and that is how that is triggered.

                        Those goofy symptoms you're experiencing with your ignition can absolutely be caused by using the wrong trigger. I can't guarantee that is the problem, but I think you have it wired wrong.

                        I emailed Nology to ask what polarity the HV output is. Most people don't care but this is the more rare case where knowing the polarity is absolutely essential.

                        I saw your email about non-compatibility with your truck - I don't buy it for a second. Check the above trigger and small red to a switch and it should work fine.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Aaron Murakami; 08-31-2018, 08:06 PM.
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • Hi Ron,

                          Originally posted by rokan View Post
                          I have come to the conclusion that this cannot be done on my 1996 Toyota Tacoma pickup!
                          If ANYTHING is attached to the top of the plug, like needs to be for the HV to be transferred, it goes wacky and crossfires and misfires to the point it will not run!
                          For some odd reason the way the distributor electronics work on this particular vehicle it just will not let it be modified to run plasma, period!!
                          I think you're right!

                          I did a little searching with google and see that your ignition system would be a real bear to modify. It has a fixed distributor and timing is controlled by the engine control module (computer). The trigger pickup is magnetic - appears to be a switched reluctance device with two rotating pieces. One piece is a finger and the other is a notched wheel. The two work together some way to give the trigger signal to the computer and then on to the "igniter". The "igniter" is a solid state device that amplifies the computer signal and switches the coil. And the coil is built into the distributor.

                          In order to use the MSD box and an external coil, the built in coil would have to be bypassed and electrically totally removed from the circuit. Then since the "igniter" is designed to drive the coil with a lot of current, it probably would be difficult to adapt it to only trigger the MSD box. I also found that a weak or failing "igniter" can cause the symptoms you described even with the stock ignition system.
                          Gary Hammond,

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gary Hammond View Post
                            Hi Ron,



                            I think you're right!

                            I did a little searching with google and see that your ignition system would be a real bear to modify. It has a fixed distributor and timing is controlled by the engine control module (computer). The trigger pickup is magnetic - appears to be a switched reluctance device with two rotating pieces. One piece is a finger and the other is a notched wheel. The two work together some way to give the trigger signal to the computer and then on to the "igniter". The "igniter" is a solid state device that amplifies the computer signal and switches the coil. And the coil is built into the distributor.

                            In order to use the MSD box and an external coil, the built in coil would have to be bypassed and electrically totally removed from the circuit. Then since the "igniter" is designed to drive the coil with a lot of current, it probably would be difficult to adapt it to only trigger the MSD box. I also found that a weak or failing "igniter" can cause the symptoms you described even with the stock ignition system.
                            Gary, did you see my post?

                            Ron has the white trigger wire which is for mechanical points and the red small wire, which is for the ignition switch positive to turn on the MSD going to the distributor instead of the violet/green wires. There is no way it can ever work correctly like that.

                            Igniters aren't the problem - I did it in my Subaru and it has an igniter and I did it with the wasted spark ignition on top of that, which some thought was impossible until I did it. Of course the way I invented to make it work on a wasted spark ignition coil pack system with isolated secondaries with opposite polarities on each end is a bit elaborate but is the solution.

                            In any case, I think the correct trigger wires on the msd has to be used and the small red wire needs to be on the + switch on the ignition or manual toggle switch to the + of the battery and it should work fine. Even if it doesn't wind up working, it has to be wired up correctly to begin with in order to assess what the deal is.
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                              Gary, did you see my post?

                              Ron has the white trigger wire which is for mechanical points and the red small wire, which is for the ignition switch positive to turn on the MSD going to the distributor instead of the violet/green wires. There is no way it can ever work correctly like that.

                              Igniters aren't the problem - I did it in my Subaru and it has an igniter and I did it with the wasted spark ignition on top of that, which some thought was impossible until I did it. Of course the way I invented to make it work on a wasted spark ignition coil pack system with isolated secondaries with opposite polarities on each end is a bit elaborate but is the solution.

                              In any case, I think the correct trigger wires on the msd has to be used and the small red wire needs to be on the + switch on the ignition or manual toggle switch to the + of the battery and it should work fine. Even if it doesn't wind up working, it has to be wired up correctly to begin with in order to assess what the deal is.
                              Originally I had the small red wire going to the ignition and had the problem so I switched it just to try but it made no difference? But the other wires may be wrong like you say? The way I had it wired originally was the way the guy at MSD told me to do it but he may not have completely understood what my ignition actually is? I will try rewiring it like you say Aaron and see if that makes any difference.

                              Thanks,
                              Ron

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                                I'm guessing it would be I would double check directly with MSD though because I'm not familiar with that truck or engine. If the ignition coils has a simple + and - primary input with a single HV output that goes to a distributor cap, then it should work fine but please don't take my word for it.

                                Here is the instruction/data sheet for the street fire module with about half a dozen or more hookup situations. You can probably find your exact one in there and if so, should work fine. They're all pretty standard back then. https://www.jegs.com/InstallationIns...1/121-5520.pdf
                                MSD says "Solid core spark plug wires cannot be used with the 5520".
                                Aaron, will this interfere with our Plasma Ignition work?
                                Don't you recommend solid core wire for best performance with the Plasma Ignition?
                                Thanks.

                                Richard Gieser

                                Comment

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