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Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

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  • that's an awesome document. thank you. if someone could commercialize it...

    subadude and I chat frequently - he's been the standard bearer over on the Gadgetmangroove.com forum in Ron's absence. unless he's not sharing everything, his torquemasters are doing just fine since install on his plasma'd daily driver Subaru.

    Comment


    • Hello Folks

      Update:
      A few days ago i was driving with the plasma system on, all was fine, i stopt, and started it again and the motor was running on 7 cilinders instead of 8.
      I was searching for the problem and the diode of cilinder 4 was broken, replaced it and it run fine.
      Today i recieved my smaller main jets, standaard in the car is #55, i tried #38, #43 and #47. The motor run at idle with #38 very well, and thats all, when accelarating the motor died. Also with #43 and with 47 a little bit better, but still at drive speed a little to low on gas. What i noticed with number 47 is that the motor run cooler than with the standard 55's. The best will be in between.
      So leaning it out in combi with the plasma system won't give you much.... think vapor is the anwser.
      Now AGAIN it runs on 7 cilinders, so i checked all the wires and wire connections, soldered it. I will replace the diode again, its my last reserve....its again cilinder 4. Aaron any idea why the diode would fail 2 times?
      When the motor is running cilinder 4 sometimes sparks and sometimes not with the broken diode.
      I use standard Champion Copper Plus spark plugs with the resistor removed and a 3 times bigger gap.

      Update 2: I had replaced the diode of cilinder 4 with a new one, i checked the resistance of the broken diodes it gave a value of around 2M ohms. The good diodes don't give any value.
      I have 2 blocks of 4 diodes. On the right of the motor the block of 4 diodes are all good.
      On the left i noticed another diode of cilinder 6 was giving a value....
      I have no more spare diodes left, and the motor is still not running good. dammm...
      I have disconnected the wires from the diodes to the secondary coil output so it will run only on de MSD CDI spark, but still it doesn't run good. I will disconnect all the wires form the sparkplug to the diodes, will do this tomorrow...

      I was hoping i could lean the motor out, with the plasma system, but it running better and more power, but no better mileage jet.

      Greets!
      Last edited by Co-Creator; 10-25-2016, 09:21 AM.
      Nosce te Ipsum

      My Setup:
      Jeep Wagoneer V8 5.9L (360) 1979
      Standard Motorcraft 2150 2bbl carb
      Main jets size #55 stock
      Eagle Research Carb Enhancer
      Water and HHO injection with Aquatune HB plus
      MSD CDI 5520 street fire
      NGK spark plugs BP7ES(non-resistor) with sidegapping and 1.5mm gap
      Flametrower III canister ignition coil
      8x 20KV 2A PRHVP2A-20 High Voltage Rectifier Diode
      Granatelli Zero resistor spark plug wires

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Co-Creator View Post
        Hello Folks

        Update:
        A few days ago i was driving with the plasma system on, all was fine, i stopt, and started it again and the motor was running on 7 cilinders instead of 8.
        I was searching for the problem and the diode of cilinder 4 was broken, replaced it and it run fine.
        Today i recieved my smaller main jets, standaard in the car is #55, i tried #38, #43 and #47. The motor run at idle with #38 very well, and thats all, when accelarating the motor died. Also with #43 and with 47 a little bit better, but still at drive speed a little to low on gas. What i noticed with number 47 is that the motor run cooler than with the standard 55's. The best will be in between.
        So leaning it out in combi with the plasma system won't give you much.... think vapor is the anwser.
        Now AGAIN it runs on 7 cilinders, so i checked all the wires and wire connections, soldered it. I will replace the diode again, its my last reserve....its again cilinder 4. Aaron any idea why the diode would fail 2 times?
        When the motor is running cilinder 4 sometimes sparks and sometimes not with the broken diode.
        I use standard Champion Copper Plus spark plugs with the resistor removed and a 3 times bigger gap.

        Update 2: I had replaced the diode of cilinder 4 with a new one, i checked the resistance of the broken diodes it gave a value of around 2M ohms. The good diodes don't give any value.
        I have 2 blocks of 4 diodes. On the right of the motor the block of 4 diodes are all good.
        On the left i noticed another diode of cilinder 6 was giving a value....
        I have no more spare diodes left, and the motor is still not running good. dammm...
        I have disconnected the wires from the diodes to the secondary coil output so it will run only on de MSD CDI spark, but still it doesn't run good. I will disconnect all the wires form the sparkplug to the diodes, will do this tomorrow...

        I was hoping i could lean the motor out, with the plasma system, but it running better and more power, but no better mileage jet.

        Greets!
        Other than the modifications you've made for Plasma ignition, how was the general condition of the motor beforehand? did it burn oil? what about the timing, has it been correctly set recently? are compression and vacuum, gaskets all fine? Something about #4 cylinder isn't right...is one of the valves broken or sticky on that cylinder? a strange grounding issue perhaps?

        Your engine SHOULD "run hot" when it's running at top efficiency, when you've tuned it for equivalence (meaning it's neither rich nor lean and the stoichiometric balance is correct - and that's often NOT 14.7:1) across as wide a range of operating conditions as possible. how does the exhaust smell with plasma engaged and the smaller carb jets when it's at hot idle? (it should be hot moist air with no smell of anything petrochemical/automotive - sweet is bad; that's coolant burning).

        https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/...atio-explained

        Mileage gains - these engines were built to burn fuel, and plenty of it, as you know. an improved ignition only enhances an engine's ability to burn fuel. efficiencies are realized when the engine is operated below peak power. thankfully mods like this help get the power happening at lower fuel consumption. (lower throttle angle = less air ingested to the higher vacuum, and higher vacuum rips the gas out of liquid form to vapour for combustion easier/better) try being gentle on the accelerator and see how the mileage turns out.

        what was your mileage or fuel consumption like before plasma?
        Last edited by heysoundude; 10-25-2016, 02:55 PM.

        Comment


        • I would close the gap on that cylinder #4 and see if that makes a difference. Electrically, I can't see why one would burn on twice on a specific cylinder unless its a coincidence that you had 2 bad diodes in a row.

          If those diodes don't have a high enough amp rating for some reason, there are higher amp ones available you can try that are also inexpensive. 20kv should also be high enough for the voltage rating because the voltage will only go to what is needed to jump the gap with compressed air/gas on it.

          Worst case is that you make your own string with 6A100 diodes - those are 6 amps 1000 volts so need a string of 20-30kv worth, but 6 amp is fairly bullet proof for these applications. Have used those for years, but I started using the single diodes because I got tired of soldering them.

          Are your plug cables suitable for capacitive discharge? You have to find out because this is important.

          You really need to add a bit of water vapor injection and/or hho - this is what always gave the top results - leaning out engine, plasma and water. You can get gains with the plasma alone, but the best is a combination.



          Originally posted by Co-Creator View Post
          Hello Folks

          Update:
          A few days ago i was driving with the plasma system on, all was fine, i stopt, and started it again and the motor was running on 7 cilinders instead of 8.
          I was searching for the problem and the diode of cilinder 4 was broken, replaced it and it run fine.
          Today i recieved my smaller main jets, standaard in the car is #55, i tried #38, #43 and #47. The motor run at idle with #38 very well, and thats all, when accelarating the motor died. Also with #43 and with 47 a little bit better, but still at drive speed a little to low on gas. What i noticed with number 47 is that the motor run cooler than with the standard 55's. The best will be in between.
          So leaning it out in combi with the plasma system won't give you much.... think vapor is the anwser.
          Now AGAIN it runs on 7 cilinders, so i checked all the wires and wire connections, soldered it. I will replace the diode again, its my last reserve....its again cilinder 4. Aaron any idea why the diode would fail 2 times?
          When the motor is running cilinder 4 sometimes sparks and sometimes not with the broken diode.
          I use standard Champion Copper Plus spark plugs with the resistor removed and a 3 times bigger gap.

          Update 2: I had replaced the diode of cilinder 4 with a new one, i checked the resistance of the broken diodes it gave a value of around 2M ohms. The good diodes don't give any value.
          I have 2 blocks of 4 diodes. On the right of the motor the block of 4 diodes are all good.
          On the left i noticed another diode of cilinder 6 was giving a value....
          I have no more spare diodes left, and the motor is still not running good. dammm...
          I have disconnected the wires from the diodes to the secondary coil output so it will run only on de MSD CDI spark, but still it doesn't run good. I will disconnect all the wires form the sparkplug to the diodes, will do this tomorrow...

          I was hoping i could lean the motor out, with the plasma system, but it running better and more power, but no better mileage jet.

          Greets!
          Aaron Murakami





          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

          Comment


          • Originally posted by heysoundude View Post
            Other than the modifications you've made for Plasma ignition, how was the general condition of the motor beforehand? did it burn oil? what about the timing, has it been correctly set recently? are compression and vacuum, gaskets all fine? Something about #4 cylinder isn't right...is one of the valves broken or sticky on that cylinder? a strange grounding issue perhaps?

            Your engine SHOULD "run hot" when it's running at top efficiency, when you've tuned it for as wide a range of equivalence (meaning it's neither rich nor lean and the stoichiometric balance is correct - and that's often NOT 14.7:1) across as wide a range of operating conditions as possible. how does the exhaust smell with plasma engaged and the smaller carb jets when it's at hot idle? (it should be hot moist air with no smell of anything petrochemical/automotive - sweet is bad; that's coolant burning).

            https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/...atio-explained

            Mileage gains - these engines were built to burn fuel, and plenty of it, as you know. an improved ignition only enhances an engine's ability to burn fuel. efficiencies are realized when the engine is operated below peak power. try being gentle on the accelerator and see how the mileage turns out.

            what was your mileage or fuel consumption like before plasma?
            Greg's VW engine dropped about 100F in temperature when it was leaner, running no plasma and had water vapor injection. The engine went cooler as the thermal efficiency went up.
            Aaron Murakami





            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

            Comment


            • I would bet that the water vapour at least partially absorbed the heat energy of combustion to cause that. That's good because if the VW engine was air cooled, the better combustion might've melted it. (that's why water injection was used in WWII bomber engines.)
              The vapour is collected and steamed off by engine oil at operating temp...but the water vapour also spreads the surface area of the hydrocarbons in the fuel out so more of it is exposed to spark for easier/fuller combustion. this is why in northern climates, ethanol is included in gasoline- in cooler weather, the hydrophyllic alcohol (yes it has a higher octane rating too, but it burns so slowly) absorbs any condensation in the tank...and tank supply goes to engine for burning and the cycle completes.
              Surely you've noticed better fuel economy in the humid Pacific Northwest than in drier climates ? (atmospheric pressure at or near sea level has something to do with it too - more air, less fuel... that's why vehicles have included MAP sensors for a while)
              Last edited by heysoundude; 10-25-2016, 02:49 PM.

              Comment


              • Hello guys,

                I have ordered 10 new 2kv 2a diodes from china. For now the plasma system is off and only running on the MSD 5520.
                I have an water/ HHO injection on the motor also, its called aquatune http://www.aquatune.com/index.php/pr...uatune-plus-hb and i ve made a fuel heater.
                What i found out, is that the cap for cleaning the aquatune was missing.... so all the time i was pulling a lot of air under the carb. Also with the plasma system.
                What i noticed, i was running lean on main jet #47 (instead of standard #55). So the motor run great, but with accelaration it was too lean. I made the aquatune and give it some HHO/water and the car is running very good. So the water/hho injection makes the differance from to lean in accelaration to running perfect. Temp dropped also.
                So now, replace the diodes for cilinder 6 and lets test the plasma then

                @Aaron, you asked:Are your plug cables suitable for capacitive discharge? You have to find out because this is important.
                I have now idea, i just used solid copper wire with a silicon isolator, no resistance. The plasma spark is good, and with some water you can hear the bang.

                @heysoundude: you sad, the V8 was made to take some gas. Indeed, but its also the best motor to tune for 100 or 200 miles per gallon Check http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/e...s/?page_id=787 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqKEQLBg6a8

                P.s. Did you guys see this, its without water or fuel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5PYzGgHx14

                Keeping you folks updated.
                Last edited by Co-Creator; 10-29-2016, 02:59 PM.
                Nosce te Ipsum

                My Setup:
                Jeep Wagoneer V8 5.9L (360) 1979
                Standard Motorcraft 2150 2bbl carb
                Main jets size #55 stock
                Eagle Research Carb Enhancer
                Water and HHO injection with Aquatune HB plus
                MSD CDI 5520 street fire
                NGK spark plugs BP7ES(non-resistor) with sidegapping and 1.5mm gap
                Flametrower III canister ignition coil
                8x 20KV 2A PRHVP2A-20 High Voltage Rectifier Diode
                Granatelli Zero resistor spark plug wires

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Co-Creator View Post
                  Hello guys,

                  I have ordered 10 new 2kv 2a diodes from china. For now the plasma system is off and only running on the MSD 5520.
                  I have an water/ HHO injection on the motor also, its called aquatune http://www.aquatune.com/index.php/pr...uatune-plus-hb and i ve made a fuel heater.
                  What i found out, is that the cap for cleaning the aquatune was missing.... so all the time i was pulling a lot of air under the carb. Also with the plasma system.
                  What i noticed, i was running lean on main jet #47 (instead of standard #55). So the motor run great, but with accelaration it was too lean. I made the aquatune and give it some HHO/water and the car is running very good. So the water/hho injection makes the differance from to lean in accelaration to running perfect. Temp dropped also.
                  So now, replace the diodes for cilinder 6 and lets test the plasma then

                  @Aaron, you asked:Are your plug cables suitable for capacitive discharge? You have to find out because this is important.
                  I have now idea, i just used solid copper wire with a silicon isolator, no resistance. The plasma spark is good, and with some water you can hear the bang.

                  @heysoundude: you sad, the V8 was made to take some gas. Indeed, but its also the best motor to tune for 100 or 200 miles per gallon Check http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/e...s/?page_id=787 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqKEQLBg6a8

                  P.s. Did you guys see this, its without water or fuel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5PYzGgHx14

                  Keeping you folks updated.
                  I'm familiar with aquatune, but have never used it myself.

                  Do you know what your temp drop is with just aquatune and normal msd?

                  Normally, cap discharge is not for solid core wires. But did you create your own cables? In the past, I have created my own with refrigerator copper tubing pushed inside of a clear vinyl tubing - this I believe is fine for cap discharge but not normal solid core wires.

                  I'll check out the vids.

                  ----------

                  I just received my EGT probe/meter for my Datsun. I'll have to drill a hole into my exhaust manifold to mount it, but I need that for accurate temp change recordings. Also got a new tachometer and vacuum gauge for the experiments.
                  Aaron Murakami





                  You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                  Comment


                  • Hello Aaron,

                    I made the plug wires myself and used silicone wire like this https://www.conrad.nl/nl/faber-kabel...r-1301157.html
                    So it is twisted copper wire with an silicone isolator.

                    Today i tested all 10 diodes of 20kv 2A, with a 9V battery. 5 diodes are broken!
                    I will wait for my new 10 diodes and replace the 5, but if they keep breaking then i will have to string i guess.
                    All your banggoods diodes are good Aaron?
                    I just notice i placed the diodes like in you film timemark 32:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqNVH6LM4W0
                    But the diodes must be in opposite direction??? Thats why i broke the diodes? Maybe your diodes are still good and you can turn them before they fail.


                    Here is a test on the diodes from a german guy, puts 14kv on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWUF9vMyJI

                    Greets
                    Last edited by Co-Creator; 11-07-2016, 04:23 AM.
                    Nosce te Ipsum

                    My Setup:
                    Jeep Wagoneer V8 5.9L (360) 1979
                    Standard Motorcraft 2150 2bbl carb
                    Main jets size #55 stock
                    Eagle Research Carb Enhancer
                    Water and HHO injection with Aquatune HB plus
                    MSD CDI 5520 street fire
                    NGK spark plugs BP7ES(non-resistor) with sidegapping and 1.5mm gap
                    Flametrower III canister ignition coil
                    8x 20KV 2A PRHVP2A-20 High Voltage Rectifier Diode
                    Granatelli Zero resistor spark plug wires

                    Comment


                    • Hey Aaron.

                      I saw your latest ignition video and it all looks great and looking forward to seeing how that system will perform.
                      Please be advised that I am still considering many possibilities with this type of system.
                      I am interested in other avenues of exploration but I certainly have not abandoned this avenue.

                      In fact; I recently acquired a cheap 1979 ford van with standard carburetor and ignition which should serve well for these experiments and tests.

                      1979FordAmbulance.jpg

                      I still have a generator on the bench with plasma ignition system ready to go and since I am experiencing difficulty obtaining materials for the current experiment; I am now working on this project a little more and also thinking about vehicle conversions so; I am very interested in what you are doing especially in terms of reliability because this is a concern. Systems do need to be practical so need to ensure things like long lasting plugs and reliable diodes can be obtained and used.

                      Do you foresee any longevity issues with these diodes being used in this manner?
                      I do see a previous discussion about diode failures but not sure if this is a quality, rating or application issue or merely an installation issue.

                      One of the challenges of these experiments is proper analysis of what the engine is actually doing.
                      Yes, exhaust gas temperature monitoring is good but if we are still relying on fuels such as gasoline or alcohol; how do we know what is actually happening with efficiency and emissions?

                      An exhaust gas analyzer would be nice and if trying to compare efficiency by way of mileage; seem like this would take a lot of road trips...

                      At any rate; this is where I am at and thank you again for sharing.

                      Kindest regards;

                      }:>

                      PS: Who sells Barium Ferrite bar magnets anymore? Please do tell. . .

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Co-Creator View Post
                        Hello Aaron,

                        I made the plug wires myself and used silicone wire like this https://www.conrad.nl/nl/faber-kabel...r-1301157.html
                        So it is twisted copper wire with an silicone isolator.

                        Today i tested all 10 diodes of 20kv 2A, with a 9V battery. 5 diodes are broken!
                        I will wait for my new 10 diodes and replace the 5, but if they keep breaking then i will have to string i guess.
                        All your banggoods diodes are good Aaron?
                        I just notice i placed the diodes like in you film timemark 32:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqNVH6LM4W0
                        But the diodes must be in opposite direction??? Thats why i broke the diodes? Maybe your diodes are still good and you can turn them before they fail.


                        Here is a test on the diodes from a german guy, puts 14kv on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWUF9vMyJI

                        Greets
                        I have my diodes reversed because the HV output of my coil is negative so cathode points to the + of the primary of ignition coil (pos of cap).

                        If you have HV positive from coil, then anode must touch the + of primary of ignition coil (pos of cap).
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Scorch View Post
                          Hey Aaron.

                          I saw your latest ignition video and it all looks great and looking forward to seeing how that system will perform.
                          Please be advised that I am still considering many possibilities with this type of system.
                          I am interested in other avenues of exploration but I certainly have not abandoned this avenue.

                          In fact; I recently acquired a cheap 1979 ford van with standard carburetor and ignition which should serve well for these experiments and tests.



                          I still have a generator on the bench with plasma ignition system ready to go and since I am experiencing difficulty obtaining materials for the current experiment; I am now working on this project a little more and also thinking about vehicle conversions so; I am very interested in what you are doing especially in terms of reliability because this is a concern. Systems do need to be practical so need to ensure things like long lasting plugs and reliable diodes can be obtained and used.

                          Do you foresee any longevity issues with these diodes being used in this manner?
                          I do see a previous discussion about diode failures but not sure if this is a quality, rating or application issue or merely an installation issue.

                          One of the challenges of these experiments is proper analysis of what the engine is actually doing.
                          Yes, exhaust gas temperature monitoring is good but if we are still relying on fuels such as gasoline or alcohol; how do we know what is actually happening with efficiency and emissions?

                          An exhaust gas analyzer would be nice and if trying to compare efficiency by way of mileage; seem like this would take a lot of road trips...

                          At any rate; this is where I am at and thank you again for sharing.

                          Kindest regards;

                          }:>

                          PS: Who sells Barium Ferrite bar magnets anymore? Please do tell. . .
                          I really don't think the diodes are the issue. Not sure why Co-Creator is having the diode issues. These big diodes have always been very reliable for me.

                          Plugs on the other hand, I still have to test those Performance X iridium non resistor plugs.

                          For emissions, if it runs properly with lower temps being leaned out, thermal efficiency is up and emissions have to be down.

                          For tuning the air/fuel ratio, I recently received my Colortune plug from the UK. Has a transparent part around the electrode so you can actually see the color of the combustion in the engine. If too red, then too rich, tuned properly for 14.7:1 is a lighter blue color so you can just adjust the carb based on the color you see. For more lean, I'm guessing it will be even lighter blue, but if compensated with plasma, can probably lean it out more and still get the same color of combustion - I don't know but am getting all the tools to test it out.

                          I have a friend about an hour away who has a 5 gas analyzer. Haven't talked to him in a while, but if he is still there, I can probably drive there to get the emissions tested all I want. And, can test gas mileage on the way to his home.
                          Aaron Murakami





                          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                          Comment


                          • Ok Thanks Aaron,

                            I think i made a fault with the polarity. Because you have good results with the diodes.
                            The first time i hooked up the diodes i was using an TFI E-coil. With this coil the 5 diodes failed. Now i have the standard canister coil.
                            Thanks for the info, maybe there is a relation with failing diodes and polarity of the coils.
                            I will check the polarity this way:
                            TM-5-4210-230-14P-1_546_3.jpg
                            Nosce te Ipsum

                            My Setup:
                            Jeep Wagoneer V8 5.9L (360) 1979
                            Standard Motorcraft 2150 2bbl carb
                            Main jets size #55 stock
                            Eagle Research Carb Enhancer
                            Water and HHO injection with Aquatune HB plus
                            MSD CDI 5520 street fire
                            NGK spark plugs BP7ES(non-resistor) with sidegapping and 1.5mm gap
                            Flametrower III canister ignition coil
                            8x 20KV 2A PRHVP2A-20 High Voltage Rectifier Diode
                            Granatelli Zero resistor spark plug wires

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Co-Creator View Post
                              Ok Thanks Aaron,

                              I think i made a fault with the polarity. Because you have good results with the diodes.
                              The first time i hooked up the diodes i was using an TFI E-coil. With this coil the 5 diodes failed. Now i have the standard canister coil.
                              Thanks for the info, maybe there is a relation with failing diodes and polarity of the coils.
                              I will check the polarity this way:
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]5576[/ATTACH]
                              Word of Caution... !!! DO NOT CHECK THE DIODES THE WAY YOU HAVE SHOWN..THEY WILL FAIL FOR SURE..A SOLID STATE DEVICE IN SERIES WITH A SPARK GAP IS UNDER MOST STRESS AND WILL PUNCTURE THE DEPLETION LAYER CAPACITANCE DESTROYING IT..
                              Rgds,
                              Faraday88.
                              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                                Word of Caution... !!! DO NOT CHECK THE DIODES THE WAY YOU HAVE SHOWN..THEY WILL FAIL FOR SURE..A SOLID STATE DEVICE IN SERIES WITH A SPARK GAP IS UNDER MOST STRESS AND WILL PUNCTURE THE DEPLETION LAYER CAPACITANCE DESTROYING IT..
                                Rgds,
                                Faraday88.
                                That pencil method is really only to check the polarity of the coil. Once polarity is known, then you know what direction to place the diodes.
                                Aaron Murakami





                                You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                                Comment

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