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Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

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  • #31
    Hi guys, great topic here, I thought this week about starting one myself but now we can discuss here.
    I have picked up the plasma ignition system recently again on the 250CC generator. We had this running with contact points but currently I have it on the bench in solid state mode and it runs great. A thyristor BT151 800V is what I use for the switch, this works real well I really recommend this SCR. I have a Bedini SS SG charging the cap and this also runs surpisingly well, charging the cap to around 250V before discharging to the bobbin. With smaller caps like 1uf the cap is charged quickly and with low power input (12V 250ma). No problem drawing long sparks without the sparkplug cathode. Very decent effect already with 2.2 or 4.7uf cap. For some reason I like non polarized caps best, like the bedini cap but I like em a little smaller with the bedini setup to keep things elegant.

    Next thing for me is the hall sensor that will trigger the BT151. This shouldn't be to difficult to setup, hopefully.

    I shot a little video with my phone this weekend, have a look but watch your volume please, it will get nasty. In the video I believe there is 2x10UF in the circuit which I now believe is overkill but great for effect. When the frequency goes up it consumed about 22watt, with a 1uf cap it will run at this frequency using 3watts and still disturb your neighbours, apperently. Let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Floris; 03-11-2013, 10:57 PM.

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    • #32
      Hi folks,

      Anyone tried the MSD DIS-4 for cars using direct ignition? I have the book and the DIS-4 with resistor less parts and diodes, etc. But I just can't get the plasma to appear. I am in desperate need of help. I'm triggering manually by grounding the white trigger wire into the ground... The only thing left to try is to check for poor earths. I'm using Accel Superstock leads and Torque Master plugs.

      All the best,
      Rikard

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      • #33
        Hey Arron
        I just ordered the MSD 5520 Street Fire Ignition to fit to my car which I will then convert to your plasma system.
        I was lucky enough to see an original Tesla coil in operation last year in Colorado Springs. It was the size of a normal car coil and sent out blue sparks that didn't shock you.
        Out of interenst, have you ever tried using such a coil for engine ignition? I wasn't sure if that type of spark ignites fuel.
        Also, what things should I beware of when I convert my car ignition? eg: Will it wear out spark plugs or cause any internal damage?
        Its a 1992 VW Golf with 2litre 16v VW Jetta engine that will have a EFIE kit fitted to adjust the oxygen sensor voltage and lean out the fuel mix.
        regards,
        Torsten

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        • #34
          Originally posted by energyrikard View Post
          Anyone tried the MSD DIS-4 for cars using direct ignition?
          I'd be very interested in this too. I'll need the MSD DIS-2 to use with my Subaru ignition waste spark setup.
          Aaron Murakami





          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by antechnola View Post
            Hey Arron
            I just ordered the MSD 5520 Street Fire Ignition to fit to my car which I will then convert to your plasma system.
            I was lucky enough to see an original Tesla coil in operation last year in Colorado Springs. It was the size of a normal car coil and sent out blue sparks that didn't shock you.
            Out of interenst, have you ever tried using such a coil for engine ignition? I wasn't sure if that type of spark ignites fuel.
            Also, what things should I beware of when I convert my car ignition? eg: Will it wear out spark plugs or cause any internal damage?
            Its a 1992 VW Golf with 2litre 16v VW Jetta engine that will have a EFIE kit fitted to adjust the oxygen sensor voltage and lean out the fuel mix.
            regards,
            Torsten
            I haven't tested that for ignition, but an autotransformer - the regular ignition coil is invented by Tesla.
            Aaron Murakami





            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by antechnola View Post
              Hey Arron
              I just ordered the MSD 5520 Street Fire Ignition to fit to my car which I will then convert to your plasma system.
              I was lucky enough to see an original Tesla coil in operation last year in Colorado Springs. It was the size of a normal car coil and sent out blue sparks that didn't shock you.
              Out of interenst, have you ever tried using such a coil for engine ignition? I wasn't sure if that type of spark ignites fuel.
              Also, what things should I beware of when I convert my car ignition? eg: Will it wear out spark plugs or cause any internal damage?
              Its a 1992 VW Golf with 2litre 16v VW Jetta engine that will have a EFIE kit fitted to adjust the oxygen sensor voltage and lean out the fuel mix.
              regards,
              Torsten
              Hi Torsten,

              Yes, spark plugs will be worn down quicker. If the plasma is small enough with the small caps in the CDI/MSD units, no engine damage. So only use the smallest milijoule discharge CDI/MSD's you can get.
              Aaron Murakami





              You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

              Comment


              • #37
                Hi,

                I have a subaru too (waste spark) and I have tried the sparkamp x40 High Performance Ignition Systems > Ignition Kits

                but at this time I didn't retarded ignition timing so the change was not as it could have been

                I am curious about the method for retarding ignition timing, maybe efie (cts, maf, o2, ???)

                Comment


                • #38
                  krisskool,

                  isn't it so that when an engine gets hot the ECU can retard timing to avoid knocking? Perhaps we could adjust the sensor signal in a way to trick the ECU into thinking the engine is hotter than it really is thereby retarding timing?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    yes and that's why I think about an efie for hho : retard ignition and reduce fuel injection

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Hi again,

                      I have tried two set ups and none of them gives me plasma. I am getting desperate...

                      I'm using resistorless Accel Superstock leads. Resistorless Torque Master from extremespark.com

                      First set up
                      MSD 62153 DIS-4 HO ignition box http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/...id=15032386156
                      MSD 8232 Single Tower Cil Single Tower Coil, CPC Ignition - 8232
                      20x 6a100

                      Second set up
                      MSD 5520 ignition box http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/...id=15032386133
                      MSD 8201 Pro Power Coil (for drag racing and not entirely compatible with the 5520)
                      http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/...id=15032386206
                      20x 6a100

                      Battery is properly charged. Ground is good. I get good sparks from the CDI boxes. Diodes directed as in the book and on the shortest possible path as described. Coil polarity is positive. No plasma.

                      I've come to the point that I've tried almost everything and I can't figure out what's wrong. I have tested the diodes one by one and they are OK. Have 2 other strings that show the same values that I have tested with as well....
                      I'm thinking that the coils are not good for creating plasma, but it's two brand new and different coils with totally different properties. That both of them can't do plasma is a bit far fetched... Another thing I'm thinking of is that the wire I'm connecting the diode string with to the terminals is too thin.. As you can see, there's not so much left to try...

                      Here's a pic of the second setup:
                      plasma setup 5520 with 8201.jpg

                      P.S.
                      Diode string temporarily disconnected as you can see...
                      Last edited by energyrikard; 03-20-2013, 05:34 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Rikard,

                        Please post a full clear diagram of the second setup. It works every time with that Street Fire module.
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hi Aaron,

                          The diagram is as follows:
                          plasma setup revision 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

                          I called MSD last night to double check the HV polarity and it's positive for all my coils in both set ups.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by energyrikard View Post
                            Hi Aaron,

                            The diagram is as follows:
                            plasma setup revision 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

                            I called MSD last night to double check the HV polarity and it's positive for all my coils in both set ups.
                            Your plug diagram looks a bit odd. Are all the striped lines the threads of the plug or the ceramic insulator?

                            Other than that, assuming that the ignition coil is really HV + output, and your diodes are good, I think it should work fine.
                            It would be identical to what I did but I used a different coil that has HV - output so the diode(s) were in the SAME place, just reversed.

                            If you remove the diode, does it work as a normal CDI if you manually trigger it?


                            Let me know the answers to the 2 bolded questions first and lets go from there.
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              highvoltagediodes.jpg

                              These are some diodes I'll be testing when I can free up some time. I plan to use these on my Subaru with wasted spark ignition so my diodes have to be opposite polarity from each other since half the coil is + and the other half is -.

                              They're 2A 30kv high frequency ham radio didoes. You can get them from Ebay for about $25 a piece delivered.
                              They have different ones with different amp ratings and voltages.

                              I think the voltage is fine and 2 amps should be more than enough. I use the 6A100's normally because that is 6 amps at whatever voltage the strings is and it is VERY INEXPENSIVE.

                              If you want to try these, search ebay for HV diode ham - but buy at your own risk. I'm not making any claims since I haven't tested mine.

                              They have threads on each ends for screwing a connector to so that's handy. They're potted so it may be made of multiple smaller ones, not sure, but if they work good, can be a time saver.
                              Aaron Murakami





                              You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                HV wire for diode strings

                                Hi everyone my first post here...
                                Rikard and Aaron, one detail I caught someplace in the Ignition Secrets info, was using HV wire in construction of the diode string. I haven't even got my diodes yet, but I found an online auction and bought 10 ft. of HV wire rated at 30 KV. Tinned stranded copper wire w/ white silicone insulation, 7/32" O D, rated 30KV. Cost about 20 bucks.
                                I'm not an electronics guy, I bought this wire for diode strings, thinking to err on side of caution.
                                I don't know just how important this detail is...?
                                Here's a couple pics, in case this may help.
                                Air Oil Separator stuff 010.jpgAir Oil Separator stuff 013.jpg

                                I finished installing my MSD Streetfire 5520 CDI in my '85 Subaru yesterday, works great. Torquemaster plugs to follow, then zero resist. plug wires/diode strings...
                                I want to thank Aaron and the other great folks here for all they have and are doing. Important stuff, seems to me!

                                Subadude

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