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Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

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  • #16
    Nice neat craftmanship Dog-One.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
      Seems to me the cap charge which rides the ignition spark should be triggered by the conventional timing mechanism (eg points )
      This circuit is about as simple as there is. It's a booster cap system only. The caps discharge once the high voltage conducts. The high current follows the discharge of the high voltage. Essentially, the high voltage arc creates a short across the spark plug gap and when that happens, the booster caps dump most of their charge, minus what little the diode string holds back. Think of the spark gap as a switch and then it all makes sense.

      The three large step-up transformers are necessary to charge the caps fast enough to run an engine and since they are not current limiting devices, there is a motor speed control (triac) inline with the main power to hold the current down as to not fry the windings.

      I'm using a pair of 100uF caps for each transformer. When you work out the details, it comes to about 24 joules per pulse.

      HTH,

      D1
      Last edited by Dog-One; 03-11-2013, 02:59 PM.
      "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
      "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
      "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
      - General George S Patton Jr

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      • #18
        So.....how for instance...... could one get a mosfet to turn on when the other turns off and vice versa, both triggered by one signal? ( the points/hall effect/whatever )??

        Carl
        Last edited by hh1341; 03-11-2013, 04:08 PM.

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        • #19
          Be great if the cap could be just sitting there, charged, waiting for a spark to ride.

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          • #20
            So.....how for instance...... could one get get a mosfet to turn on when the other turns off and vice versa, both triggered by one signal? ( the points/hall effect/whatever )??
            An inverter or simply a NPN transistor will do that. If you truly want to drive a MOSFET there are little eight pin chips out there that can do it very efficiently. Some are inverting and others are non-inverting. Get one of each and you are off to the races. Do a google search for "MOSFET drivers" and you'll find loads of info.
            "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
            "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
            "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
            - General George S Patton Jr

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
              Be great if the cap could be just sitting there, charged, waiting for a spark to ride.
              That is exactly how my circuit works. Which is the whole beauty of this thing, you can leave your existing ignition in-place.
              "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
              "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
              "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
              - General George S Patton Jr

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
                Arron .......where is this latest info ...........this stuff has evolved since the package......is it on the forum?

                Carl
                The only info on the plasma that I'll share will be posted in this thread from now on. And that will include updates, etc...

                There really hasn't been much evolution of it since the package - it is just taking that info and applying it - to the jet or generator. I'm using the exact setup myself on both applications that I discussed in the package because I can confirm it does what it is supposed to do. So, hopefully everyone is happy to know that I'm actually using what I recommend. lol
                Aaron Murakami





                You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dog-One View Post
                  Secondary spark gap is a must; something like this will do
                  Thanks for sharing your experiments. I have used a secondary spark gap on bench tests but backed off from it
                  because if we have plasma too big in the engine, it can damage it. When the plasma is under compression with a lot of air, it grows even bigger.

                  With plasma that big in your engine, would be interested in seeing the inside after a few hundred hours of running time.

                  And that HyFire Mallory system works fine for you?
                  Aaron Murakami





                  You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thanks Dog-One

                    I'll check that out.

                    What about a DC voltage multiplier?
                    I have heard that mosfets can be set up in a ladder arrangement to do this, eliminating transformers, variac's, mains, inverters, and all manner of stuff

                    Before this idea I was thinking of a more portable set up using a step-up transformer and a 555 timer to drive it.

                    Carl

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                    • #25
                      Yes, you should use less duty cycle on time and use the 555 in the monostable wich give you an adjustable output that does not depend (in terms of "on time" ) in the input for this monostable configuration. this way you can adjust the exact time (not to much on time that can overheat the output transistor and no little on time that can avoid a spark in the secondary of the ignition coil or transformer) that the primary of the coil needs for any speed in the motor. do you know what I mean. sorry. My english is so poor. I am Mexicanˇ

                      QUOTE=hh1341;6440]Here are my questions........


                      My mosfet gets hot quite quickly.( Nte 2376 )
                      I am using a 50/50 duty cycle on my 555 .( maybe the cause )

                      I seem to be drawing about 4amps, to a standard auto coil with 12 volts. Does that sound about right

                      Also I was wondering if you could explain the function of the several diodes in your 555 circuit and the very short off cycle.

                      Yours
                      Carl[/QUOTE]

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                      • #26
                        Let the evolution continue, with vigour !
                        Last edited by hh1341; 03-11-2013, 04:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dog-One View Post
                          That is exactly how my circuit works. Which is the whole beauty of this thing, you can leave your existing ignition in-place.
                          That is the same concept that is in all the early patents - using a secondary power supply to charge a cap and that is across the plugs.

                          The advantage of my system with using the cap inside a CDI/MSD is that some people have problems getting the cap to follow with a lower voltage stock ignition coil.

                          So with the CDI, you get a higher voltage that stands up to more compression especially on performance engines and the cap simultaneously doubles as the low voltage source. It also means that with the CDI output of the HV being higher, an even small capacitance cap can follow, which is desirable to keep the size of the plasma down. And with the CDI discharge, you can open the gap of the plug even bigger.
                          Aaron Murakami





                          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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                          • #28
                            Muchas gracias Flepa-SG

                            You can practice your english on me, anytime

                            Carl

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                            • #29
                              Arron......are you going to put that Jet in something, and fly it ?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                                Thanks for sharing your experiments. I have used a secondary spark gap on bench tests but backed off from it
                                because if we have plasma too big in the engine, it can damage it. When the plasma is under compression with a lot of air, it grows even bigger.

                                With plasma that big in your engine, would be interested in seeing the inside after a few hundred hours of running time.

                                And that HyFire Mallory system works fine for you?
                                A couple of things here. Without the secondary gap (that would be there if you have a distributor), the charging caps dump across the ignition coil because they have a path through the diodes and through ground to do so.

                                The plasma is controllable by two methods: (1) size of caps (2) setting on the triac current limiter. My goal was to have the plasma roll off when approaching max engine speed. Larger caps charge slower which allows me to set this roll off point.

                                The plasma size is somewhat arbitrary at this point and will be adjusted once I make my attempt at igniting water mist. My hope is to use minimal Brown's gas maybe even to the point of none and will use the plasma energy and ignition timing to find the sweet spot. So what was needed is something with more than enough power and tune it down to match the engine conditions/behavior. If a small HHO cell is all that is necessary, we are in fat city; even better if it is only needed to start the engine.

                                Yes the Mallory system works fine, this way. I tried using it initially with your Ignition Secrets basic setup and it worked somewhat. Pretty small plasma. It ran for a day or two then blew out the internal IGBT which I replaced. While inside I noticed the charge cap was only 1uF which seems way too small for my intended purposes. I wanted a visually appealing plasma spark, knowing full-well that it would likely need to be tuned down for any long duration use.
                                Last edited by Dog-One; 03-11-2013, 05:20 PM.
                                "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
                                "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
                                "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
                                - General George S Patton Jr

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