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  • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi Aaron,
    Thank you for that little experimental demonstration, However, your test set up still has a Capacitor as the LV dipole, while it is relativily the 'Low' compared to the Peaking Coil Voltage (as the HV Dipole),the Gray effect as I would like to call it which 'mixes' the real Low Impedance aspect of the Battery which is essentially 'Highly' Low. with the Lowely High aspect of a Charged Capacitor, is really the way to simulate the Gray effect.(Battery and Capacitor are two different geometries of an Electric Dipole)
    Also, Mark Mackay shared me a photo gragh of the set of three CSETs which I shall share it here later, (the close up of the sportman lodge demo set up of 100hp motor.) how do you think it is assembled with three sets of the grid without a common central electrode..? and with no gap between them?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    I know - I've been saying exactly that for years. My HV discharge is not that big compared to 4000v 2+uf that I cannot ionize the gap enough to discharge a battery across it, which is the preferred method. The lowest voltage I've been able to discharge across a gap is about 80 volts or so from what I remember. And if that were 80 volts of batteries, it would have worked. I don't want to put that many 12v batteries in series though and would rather have only 12 or 24 volts over the gap because I don't want a nuclear explosion in my face. But I have a way to do it that I think will be really easy. I'm going to try it when I have time.

    In one crude test way back, I launched a magnet of a certain weight to a height that is higher than the joules of potential in the cap could account for. And that is with capacitors as the LV source, so something is there if the test was accurate. Crude but caught my attention.

    The switching principle as I show in the video is still 100% analogous to the Gray Tube patent. I know Mark is looking at the transformer as the source of the gain. With an air gap transformer, that can easily be a high frequency radiant oscillator, which it is - hence Hackenberger's or someone's statement about the waveform being like a field of wheat or hay. Even the Bedini SG coils are air gap transformers with a 1:1 winding. As long as the magnetic field isn't closed loop, should work fine. Those are radiant spikes. When a cap is hit by hv radiant spikes for long enough, it conditions it to start acting like an electret so upon discharge, it self charges quite a bit and that is added to what the transformer delivers and that is a real free energy gain. However, I don't believe that electret effect gain is enough to give the kind of OU claims for the Gray Motor. But if we couple that electret capacitor gain with the crazy low impedance discharge of a battery across a gap - with that much current in such a short time, we're looking at multi megawatt impulses to those coils for not much input.

    In the Gray Tube patent, the inductor path is back to + of the batteries, but I believe that was to give a recharging pulse to them. They were blowing up batteries this way and then came the cap between inductor and batteries - if I'm remembering the history right. In my video, I just put the inductor back to common ground because I don't need to prove it can recharge the batteries - just need to see if there is something different about the inductor pulsing with mixing HV and DC.

    I'm not sure about those tube switches you're mentioning. I might have seen the pics but not sure.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

    Comment


    • Guys, would we like to have Radiant Energy Motoric Force?

      Yip, so a Rotoverter and such things could give us even more work done for even less input energy.

      Aaron has proven for many year now that REMF change the plasma emissions to green, and the potential lifting force to be off the charts.

      Would we want REMF hitting a car's ignition wire connectors, making those wires vibrate in between the fixed-positioned ignition coil and spark plug connection connectors?

      And implementing the REMF setup on the Coil-on-Plug (COP) ignition genre, might it result in COPs shrapnelling through car bonnets?

      Well, I would rather have all that REMF action ON the air/fuel mixture in addition to the plasma luminous and sonic acoustic shock wave blast, causing such high Lorentz-forces on those air/fuel molecules that they do not even only gets propelled out into the cylinder, but SHATTERED to atoms before they even starts to radially get projected out from the spark gap.

      In other words... if somehow this can be accomplished without ignition wires jumping around like Medusa's snake hair, or ignition coils shooting out the engine bay like its a 007 issue...

      ...the result will be: NO FUEL NEEDED! Atmospheric O2 & N2 cracked to O3 and N+, and THAT recombining providing OVER 200,000 kal/mol or j/mol or whatever the darn right term is - couldn't care less.

      So what the heck are we faffing over improving HC fuel ignition and fuel supplementation for enhanced HC combustion for, and all such waste of time modalities, still?

      WE ARE NOT HARVESTING & HARNESSING RE OR REMF OPTIMALLY YET - SO LETS GET ON WITH APPLYING WHAT WE LEARNED FROM AARON AND THE GOOD REPLICATORS PARTICIPATING IN HIS FORUMS ON IGNITION AND COMBUSTION... IN THE END IT WILL REVEAL WHAT WE NEED FOR THE WAY BETTER ELECTRIC MOTOR, TOO...

      Anybody see between the lines what I mean?
      Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 05-19-2015, 08:58 PM.

      Comment


      • know - I've been saying exactly that for years. My HV discharge is not that big compared to 4000v 2+uf that I cannot ionize the gap enough to discharge a battery across it, which is the preferred method. The lowest voltage I've been able to discharge across a gap is about 80 volts or so from what I remember. And if that were 80 volts of batteries, it would have worked. I don't want to put that many 12v batteries in series though and would rather have only 12 or 24 volts over the gap because I don't want a nuclear explosion in my face. But I have a way to do it that I think will be really easy. I'm going to try it when I have time.

        I do'nt intend to say that your Caps are'nt Big, because they need not have to be, put it differently we can also have the Gray effect at Voltages as low as the ones comparable to be Switched using SCR (in place of the Spark Gaps) what is Crucial is how you arrange the Switching and not the Magnetiude of the parameters involved. what i'm really saying is that Capacitor as a Low Voltage Dipole in the first place is it self big ?as opposed to Battery, a Battery 'Discharging' Like a Capacitor is the way to go... but that does't mean raise it to the Level like a Capacitor. does it mean lower it to the Level like a Battery..??? Think?? How is it like to acheive this?

        In one crude test way back, I launched a magnet of a certain weight to a height that is higher than the joules of potential in the cap could account for. And that is with capacitors as the LV source, so something is there if the test was accurate. Crude but caught my attention.
        This really brings me to the attention of Mr. Aviso.... his set up looks really simple and even claims to have used AA batteries... What you take on this..?


        The switching principle as I show in the video is still 100% analogous to the Gray Tube patent. I know Mark is looking at the transformer as the source of the gain. With an air gap transformer, that can easily be a high frequency radiant oscillator, which it is - hence Hackenberger's or someone's statement about the waveform being like a field of wheat or hay. Even the Bedini SG coils are air gap transformers with a 1:1 winding. As long as the magnetic field isn't closed loop, should work fine. Those are radiant spikes. When a cap is hit by hv radiant spikes for long enough, it conditions it to start acting like an electret so upon discharge, it self charges quite a bit and that is added to what the transformer delivers and that is a real free energy gain. However, I don't believe that electret effect gain is enough to give the kind of OU claims for the Gray Motor. But if we couple that electret capacitor gain with the crazy low impedance discharge of a battery across a gap - with that much current in such a short time, we're looking at multi megawatt impulses to those coils for not much input.
        Hackenberger's Techinical discussion paper is a eye opener to any body who has serious Scientific outlook of this saga.. he has been very Scientific in what he describes.. although he tends to hide certain aspets (and rightly so)


        In the Gray Tube patent, the inductor path is back to + of the batteries, but I believe that was to give a recharging pulse to them. They were blowing up batteries this way and then came the cap between inductor and batteries - if I'm remembering the history right. In my video, I just put the inductor back to common ground because I don't need to prove it can recharge the batteries - just need to see if there is something different about the inductor pulsing with mixing HV and DC.
        [COLOR="#800080"]I contend that the 'back feed' aspect is inherent to the Gray effect, which make it OPENED CLOSE LOOP....[/COLOR]

        I'm not sure about those tube switches you're mentioning. I might have seen the pics but not sure.
        Let me share the photo that I have with me.. i'm looking for them in some of my old floders..
        Rgds,
        Faraday88.
        Last edited by Faraday88; 05-20-2015, 04:38 AM.
        'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

        Comment


        • good stuff

          Comment


          • I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.

            We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over, but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.

            The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap.

            If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

            the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.

            Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap.



            Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
            know - I've been saying exactly that for years. My HV discharge is not that big compared to 4000v 2+uf that I cannot ionize the gap enough to discharge a battery across it, which is the preferred method. The lowest voltage I've been able to discharge across a gap is about 80 volts or so from what I remember. And if that were 80 volts of batteries, it would have worked. I don't want to put that many 12v batteries in series though and would rather have only 12 or 24 volts over the gap because I don't want a nuclear explosion in my face. But I have a way to do it that I think will be really easy. I'm going to try it when I have time.

            I do'nt intend to say that your Caps are'nt Big, because they need not have to be, put it differently we can also have the Gray effect at Voltages as low as the ones comparable to be Switched using SCR (in place of the Spark Gaps) what is Crucial is how you arrange the Switching and not the Magnetiude of the parameters involved. what i'm really saying is that Capacitor as a Low Voltage Dipole in the first place is it self big ?as opposed to Battery, a Battery 'Discharging' Like a Capacitor is the way to go... but that does't mean raise it to the Level like a Capacitor. does it mean lower it to the Level like a Battery..??? Think?? How is it like to acheive this?

            In one crude test way back, I launched a magnet of a certain weight to a height that is higher than the joules of potential in the cap could account for. And that is with capacitors as the LV source, so something is there if the test was accurate. Crude but caught my attention.
            This really brings me to the attention of Mr. Aviso.... his set up looks really simple and even claims to have used AA batteries... What you take on this..?

            The switching principle as I show in the video is still 100% analogous to the Gray Tube patent. I know Mark is looking at the transformer as the source of the gain. With an air gap transformer, that can easily be a high frequency radiant oscillator, which it is - hence Hackenberger's or someone's statement about the waveform being like a field of wheat or hay. Even the Bedini SG coils are air gap transformers with a 1:1 winding. As long as the magnetic field isn't closed loop, should work fine. Those are radiant spikes. When a cap is hit by hv radiant spikes for long enough, it conditions it to start acting like an electret so upon discharge, it self charges quite a bit and that is added to what the transformer delivers and that is a real free energy gain. However, I don't believe that electret effect gain is enough to give the kind of OU claims for the Gray Motor. But if we couple that electret capacitor gain with the crazy low impedance discharge of a battery across a gap - with that much current in such a short time, we're looking at multi megawatt impulses to those coils for not much input.
            Hackenberger's Techinical discussion paper is a eye opener to any body who has serious Scientific outlook of this saga.. he has been very Scientific in what he describes.. although he tends to hide certain aspets (and rightly so)


            In the Gray Tube patent, the inductor path is back to + of the batteries, but I believe that was to give a recharging pulse to them. They were blowing up batteries this way and then came the cap between inductor and batteries - if I'm remembering the history right. In my video, I just put the inductor back to common ground because I don't need to prove it can recharge the batteries - just need to see if there is something different about the inductor pulsing with mixing HV and DC.
            [COLOR="#800080"]I contend that the 'back feed' aspect is inherent to the Gray effect, which make it OPENED CLOSE LOOP....[/COLOR]

            I'm not sure about those tube switches you're mentioning. I might have seen the pics but not sure.
            Let me share the photo that I have with me.. i'm looking for them in some of my old floders..
            Rgds,
            Faraday88.
            Aaron Murakami





            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

            Comment


            • I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
              This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
              the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

              We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

              The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

              If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

              the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
              It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
              by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

              Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
              Last edited by Faraday88; 05-21-2015, 04:49 AM.
              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

              Comment


              • Hello,
                Sorry im not very active forum member i like to read not to writhe ... and sorry colleges for my not perfect Englisch i now my text will have meany Fails in Gramma ...

                I think Most interesting thing of Gray Tube is to load the CSET device with a transformer [not a motor] as inductive load and harvest the "radiant effect free electrons" to get more output as input.
                Im experimenting with this wonderful device about 2 years. Some results have to, but i can say that the system is high current pulse based [yes the current pulses i have messed up to 6kA but short on duration]. So the main problem is to store the Tube generated output for continuous usage ... if we use a transformer no a solenoid or motor coil ...
                Sad, that good as nothing remains from Ed.Gray`s experiments with connected light bulbs and the small B/W TV, Radio and other household appliances, only a old newspaper (or Magazine laying in Internet) and a pair of photos... with Gray and Hackenberg.
                The main point of such setup, im think, is to construct a special designed air core transformer that can store or multiply the pulses given by Tube but not increase the discharges by "Low Voltage source".

                A small video with my test Apparatus. Gary tube and Transformer output...
                http://youtu.be/gECeKxjYb-0
                To be Continued ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                  I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
                  This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
                  the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

                  We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

                  The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

                  If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

                  the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
                  It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
                  by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

                  Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
                  [ATTACCable Spark Gaps..jpg

                  Hi Aaron I have attached a Photo that I received from the Mark about 2 years ago,
                  'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                    I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
                    This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
                    the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

                    We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

                    The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

                    If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

                    the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
                    It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
                    by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

                    Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
                    [ATTACCable Spark Gaps..jpg

                    Hi Aaron,
                    I have attached a Photo that I received from the Mark about 2 years ago, This phot0 Shows clearly that the three sets of the CSET 'Cylinders' have a common central Electrode. no evedince of a common a Spark gap between LV Anode and HV anode.
                    Rgds,
                    Faraday88.
                    'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                      I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
                      This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
                      the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

                      We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

                      The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

                      If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

                      the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
                      It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
                      by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

                      Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
                      [ATTACCable Spark Gaps..jpg

                      Hi Aaron,
                      I have attached a Photo that I received from Mark about 2 years ago, This phot0 Shows clearly that the three sets of the CSET 'Cylinders' have a common central Electrode. no evedince of a common a Spark gap between LV Anode and HV anode. Also I have pointed out this Mysterious Cable Spark, apparently same as the number of CSETs. Mark was in denial at the time when i first pointed this out!.
                      Rgds,
                      Faraday88.
                      'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                        I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
                        This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
                        the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

                        We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

                        The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

                        If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

                        the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
                        It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
                        by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

                        Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
                        [ATTACCable Spark Gaps..jpg

                        Hi Aaron,
                        I have attached a Photo that I received from the Mark about 2 years ago, This phot0 Shows clearly that the three sets of the CSET 'Cylinders' have a common central Electrode. no evedince of a common a Spark gap between LV Anode and HV anode. Also i ha\ve pointed out this Mysterious Cable Spark, apparently same as the number of CSETs.
                        Rgds,
                        Faraday88.
                        Last edited by Faraday88; 05-22-2015, 04:11 AM. Reason: addition of photo
                        'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                          I agree it is the switching arrangement and not the size of everything. However, a gap is needed for the negative resistance effect to accelerate the discharge current of the LV source.
                          This is an Interseting subject that you have pointed out here, Indeed a Spark Gap is indespensiable compared to a Solid state counterpart such as a Thyristor or Thyratron,
                          the Physics of Spark -discharge Plasma and its comparison with Solid-state counterpart is very interesting from a failure Analyis front of the device. that's where the Radiant comes into play. no wonder why the CSET is chosen in place of a Thyristor in the Discharge section of the Pulsed Operation of the Motor. and this compliments the need of a CSET in a way and that it is not a Red herring by any means.

                          We have HV over the gap and that not only ionizes the gap to make it conductive for the LV current to discharge over,hat y(If you are under the impression that it is the Ordinary or Symmetrical Discharge of the Battery in the Low resistance path of the Discharge Plasma, i guess you are dead wrong! the answer is what i call it as the Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the Battery which is wou need to acheive, and this is that very 'Mixing; that Hackenberger is mentioning)) but since they are on the same path with a common ground, the high voltage is attracting and pulling the current actively from the LV source direction at a negative resistance. Instead of the LV discharging into a positive resistance, it is being sucked out by the negative resistance.I agree that this is your way of defining the Encharging....

                          The HV source by itself has a certain high voltage and low current. They're matched to each other as far as the voltage to current for its capacity, etc... Same for the LV source - the low voltage is proportionately matched to its own particular current availability as a device unto itself. But when you mix them through a common path, that high voltage creates a very strong suction for the very high current from the LV source - way more suction than would normally be associated with it. We don't just get a normal avalanche effect with the typical ionization by collision, we get one hell of a monster effect on steroids with the mixing that normally isn't possible. The gap is necessary to "trick" the LV high current source into discharging over a gap that accelerates faster than a normal discharge over a gap. what you intend to say..needs altogether Different Physics to explain which can be comphrended by few..

                          If you can show me how to accelerate the discharge of a LV source by simply using an SCR, I would really like to see that because I've spent many hours on the bench in every variation I can come up with and using the gap is the only way I can get these power gains. If the Gray Effect isn't about the power gain by the method I describe in the video, then that seems to leave the air gap transformer acting as a radiant oscillator, but even if that gives a gain, most likely only by conditioning a cap to be an electret, then we still don't have any special effect to speak of because with that energy gain, the impulse driving the coil will be a relatively slow normal impulse still and no special effect.

                          the "Gray effect" to me doesn't have much to do with the transformer gain by whatever method - the air gap radiant oscillator transformer - the only real unconventional effect that seems to show up in any of this is this hyperfast discharge that cranks up the power density for that short time to ridiculous heights. So therefore, the Gray Effect does seem to me to be more about the negative resistance situation that allows a LV high current source (battery) to discharge across a gap and power an inductor.
                          It smple Aaron... the Input and the out put have one and same thing in common.. A gain at Charging.. and a Gain at Discharge both coupled makes it OPEND-CLOSE LOOP.
                          by the way i remember yoiur diagram of using a CHOICE Radiant Charger to the input section of Charging the Capacitor as the first Gain, ..and I assumed you would figure out the other that is the Discharge with the Second gain with Opposite nature(Torque)which is POWER nad not ENERGY as in the input section.

                          Looking forward to the picture of the tubes - not sure about them not having a gap though since Bedini and Cole visited Gray and examined the motor in person and drew the diagrams of the tubes always with the gap. [COLOR="#800080"]sure shall post it soon...still looking for them do'nt know where I palced them..(folder)[/COLOR]
                          What do you mean by ordinary or symmetrical discharge of the battery? I don't think there is anything ordinary about creating a negative resistance path in series with a battery where the current is sucked out instead of it pushing into a positive resistance. Actually, I don't believe the current comes from the battery anyway... the battery is just a potential difference and the voltage flow comes from polarized aether at the terminal and over the wire/gap and the electron current comes from the copper wire or gap itself.

                          What do you mean by Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the battery to achieve this "mixing??

                          The different physics needed to explain what I said in my post is just a principle. In a way, we have HV and low current and then LV and high current. When mixed over a gap, there is like a synthetic energy by product created that is a cross between the HV and High Current. It is more than the sum of the parts. Peter Lindemann have discussed these ideas for a long time and it is possible that this might be what was happening with Baldinelli's relay power supply that actually did not have a gap. If the HV and high current are indeed multiplied, then we not only have power increase by the time compressed discharge, but actually more wattage synthetically available to discharge in a compressed time and this is something special. I think something like this is happening but don't know any standard definitions that touch on this.

                          Although a power gain is not technically energy since it is literally just power - Tesla was using power instead of energy to do things as well. However, if we have energy dissipated over short time for high power or over long time for low power, the same energy discharged over short time with more power actually accomplishes more intended work. If we knock on a window 10 times softly nothing happens, but if we compress all 10 times of energy into 1 knock, it will break the window. Same energy input but at the higher power (1 knock), more intended work was done, which was breaking the glass.

                          Again, if we look at the possibility of a "synthetic" byproduct of actually multiplying the HV with the High Current from the LV source, that is a possible gain that nobody else is mentioning. And, the gap is an open system and with a high speed impulse over the gap, that high pressure causes a lower electrical pressure outside of the gap and causes through the same as Bernourlli effect to draw in more aether into that gap and over the wire, which adds more voltage force, which in turn will cause more current to flow. And when the inductor collapses, it also sucks in aetheric potential with it to add to the output in my opinion especially if in attraction mode. Like the SG, when the coil collapses, I believe it sucks the aetheric flow around a magnet and adds it to the output spike and then instantly, the aether restores equilibrium to the magnet by replacing what was taken.

                          I have seen that picture before that you show, but I don't think there is enough there to decipher anything. It isn't clear enough to determine that there is no gap. If that is the overunity Gray motor with tubes (not all of them were overunity) that Bedini and Cole saw and examined, there is a gap in there.
                          Aaron Murakami





                          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CD4013 View Post
                            Hello,
                            Sorry im not very active forum member i like to read not to writhe ... and sorry colleges for my not perfect Englisch i now my text will have meany Fails in Gramma ...

                            I think Most interesting thing of Gray Tube is to load the CSET device with a transformer [not a motor] as inductive load and harvest the "radiant effect free electrons" to get more output as input.
                            Im experimenting with this wonderful device about 2 years. Some results have to, but i can say that the system is high current pulse based [yes the current pulses i have messed up to 6kA but short on duration]. So the main problem is to store the Tube generated output for continuous usage ... if we use a transformer no a solenoid or motor coil ...
                            Sad, that good as nothing remains from Ed.Gray`s experiments with connected light bulbs and the small B/W TV, Radio and other household appliances, only a old newspaper (or Magazine laying in Internet) and a pair of photos... with Gray and Hackenberg.
                            The main point of such setup, im think, is to construct a special designed air core transformer that can store or multiply the pulses given by Tube but not increase the discharges by "Low Voltage source".

                            A small video with my test Apparatus. Gary tube and Transformer output...
                            http://youtu.be/gECeKxjYb-0
                            To be Continued ...
                            Hi, we have looked at that direction and it is related to what Baldinelli might have done. We have a couple possible designs that might actually work to utilize this principle for a transformer and not a motor and even without a spark gap. It requires some testing, but it does look possible. But for my experiments so far, the gap has always been necessary.

                            Just saw the video - hope you keep posting on these experiments!
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • Scorch's CDI Water Plasma Ignition Memorial Weekend Update

                              Hello all.

                              I finally got around to completing a little more fabrication and preliminary testing of the current project and video documented this.



                              Hope to wrap up fabrication of the current experiment soon so that I may actually be able to conduct a few experiments.

                              That is all for now, have a nice holiday weekend and have fun experimenting.

                              Kindest regards;

                              }:>

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Scorch View Post
                                Hello all.

                                I finally got around to completing a little more fabrication and preliminary testing of the current project and video documented this.



                                Hope to wrap up fabrication of the current experiment soon so that I may actually be able to conduct a few experiments.

                                That is all for now, have a nice holiday weekend and have fun experimenting.

                                Kindest regards;

                                }:>
                                I like your work - very clean and thanks for shooting the vids in good quality!

                                What is your exact generator and have you done any mods to the carb to be able to adjust it?

                                I just cut these plugs down to put in my Subaru EJ25 engine. It's wasted spark but I have a solution. Because of the conference, I haven't had much room to do anything else, but I hope to at least be able to show the whole thing by then.

                                (will post pics of plugs when I figure out why I can't upload it)
                                Basically just cut the ground strap level with the tip of the center electrode.
                                Aaron Murakami





                                You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                                Comment

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