Announcement

Collapse

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference

Pre-Register for FREE for the 2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference.

Registration Form: http://energyscienceconference.com/r...ation/2020.php
Schedule: http://energyscienceconference.com/2...ence-schedule/
Presenter Bio/Talk Descriptions: http://energyscienceconference.com/2020-speakers/
See more
See less

"Enhanced Generator" from JPKBook

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "Enhanced Generator" from JPKBook

    Hi All,

    I'm starting a new thread for discussion of "A Small Self-Powered Generator" from chapt 19 of Patrick J Kelly's book found here. http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter19.pdf

    JulesP has replicated two of the circuits disclosed there and is having trouble getting them to trigger properly. Here are links to the two circuits.
    http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chap...e-fit,-312,842
    and http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chap...e-fit,-312,842

    And here is a link to an album containing his builds. Very nice work. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0y15dybr5...n2q6QhHCa?dl=0
    Gary Hammond,

  • #2
    A bit of a recap would be helpful for those seeing this. As Gary has indicated all the relevant docs and images mentioned in the post are at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0y15dybr5...n2q6QhHCa?dl=0

    Chapter 19 in Patrick Kelly's book 'PJKBook', and with the chapter being recently updated with the doc called 'Enhanced Generator', focused on a 'Bedini style' generator developed by someone in South Africa (who wishes to remain anonymous due to the government's distain for such work) that started with a design and which has evolved since (see 'Developer Design 1-6'). The version I picked was 'Developer Design 3' as I was trying to work with only one battery, that might be replaced by super capacitor module at a later time (but that's another journey!). It seemed a neat and doable project but the inductive Bedini style triggering was not effective due to the trigger current being so small and so it was recommended to switch to a Hall sensor with a design based on 'Developer Design 4' but modified to use only one battery which is showing in 'Revised Hall Circuit'.

    However, despite what the 'developer' says should happen I can't get the rotor to maintain motion and with the current flowing in the coils at 7-8 amps, albeit intermittently, (the 5 coils in parallel give a resistance of about 1.7 ohms) the FET can get pretty hot. Interestingly the developer notes a resonance between the FET and the coils resulting in the FET oscillating between the pulses from the Hall sensor (see 'FET Resonance' pic). It is not clear whether this contributes to the forces on the rotor but for sure it will reduce the heating in the FET but lowering the average current. So far I have not found this and my pulses look like - 'FET Drain-Source Waveform'

    I have written to him via Kelly about the analysis of the forces using a Hall sensor in contrast to the Bedini style trigger but have not heard back as I think they are away, but I'm trying to get a wider perspective and figure out if I need to tinker with the build to solve the problem or radically modify the build based on slightly different principles.

    The device is currently in the state shown in the pic 'Current Config'. When I noted that the attraction to the combined coils 1-3 (at the front in the pic) was much stronger than to the other coil cores I reasoned and measured that the resistance of the 'lizted' coil was a lot less than the others so it took most of the current. So then, by joining the end of coil 1 to 2 etc, made the 3 coils effectively just one which evened up the resistance and the current induced attractive force. However this did not help the rotor to move so I started to look at the timing and rise and fall of the magnetisation etc and came to see that the rotor is not in a position to move as the coil current, once on, remains on for the duration of the rotor magnets transit passed the core where the sensor is. There is no polarity switching that needs to occur if it is running in repulsion mode and, if it's designed to run in attraction mode, then I would imagine the Hall trigger would need to be switched off just before TDC (core alignment) so that the rotors momentum can carry it onwards.

    So there are various issues I am seeking perspectives on: firstly, if using the Hall sensor and FET circuit, how to get the position and timing of the sensor right to enable either repulsion or attraction mode to work to keep the rotor moving. Secondly, if defaulting to the earlier inductive triggering method, getting enough voltage/current in the trigger coil to operate the circuit. There may also be issues over using a single battery (the developer has had single battery versions working but maybe they are not as efficient. One of his later designs uses a timer based system to switch a source and a receiving batter every few mins).

    Any help, experience or ideas would be most welcome. Jules
    Last edited by JulesP; 08-24-2018, 08:27 AM.
    'Consciousness came First'

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Gary and Jules,

      Thanks to both of you for sharing the information on this very interesting generator design. This is my first look at this and perhaps in the near future I can become more engaged - I have my motor project requiring my full attention. Be that as it may, I will look over all the info as time permits since the timing issue and solution would be very useful.

      There are a number of experienced experimenters out there who are more familiar with the specifics - just a matter of time before they pick up on this.
      Yaro

      "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Yaro,

        Thanks for your interest. When I have sorted this 'final' issue of the trigger timing I will be ready to make COP measurements and then get back to completing the extensive (~120 page) document to go with the project. This details construction and principles of operation as well as the physics theory around extracting vacuum energy and which I will make available to anyone who wants to read it or try to replicate the device. As with all projects like this additional researchers add new things, make improvements and discover new things.

        I reckon the accompanying doc will be finished next spring so fee free to get in touch as and when you feel moved. I'm sure I will give access to it on this forum anyway.

        Regards,

        Jules
        'Consciousness came First'

        Comment


        • #5
          Hola Jules,

          Quick question to you on this project - did you initially start with the first simple 4 extra battery circuit as a proof of concept? My take is that with the stack of magnets in the rotor that this is essentially a motor driving the generator coil output, therefore it is a repulsion mode arrangement. The rotor magnets are attracted to the core and then the coil is energized to push the rotor magnet on its way with an opposing polarity. You should be able to adjust the trigger resistor for timing. Use the center point of the rotor magnet over the coil center as a consistent means of determining a TDC reference point for timing.

          Just some random thoughts that may be of use. Keep it simple...
          Yaro

          "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

          Comment


          • #6
            All I get when I try to reply is: www.energyscienceforum.com is currently unable to handle this request.
            HTTP ERROR 500
            'Consciousness came First'

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Yaro,

              I took the South African developer's work as bona fide and based my first attempt on 'Developer Design 3' showing at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0y15dybr5...n2q6QhHCa?dl=0 . I made one significant change by replacing the transformer with a DC-DC Boost converter but when I couldn't get the inductive triggering to work switched to one based on 'Developer Design 4' but without the timed switching between two batteries. My design is showing as 'Revised 'Hall' Design'. TBC in next message . . . .
              'Consciousness came First'

              Comment


              • #8
                . . . . . (system cant handle more than a few words at a time here for some strange reason!)

                As I understand it one can run this device in either repulsion or attraction mode depending on whether the coils are switched on just after TDC (repulsion) or switched off just before TDC (attraction). I am still working out the most appropriate method to use for switching on the coils (inductive, Hall or optical) and how, if necessary to set the timing, based on advice from various quarters.

                Jules
                'Consciousness came First'

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jules,

                  Had the same software issue late last year and contacted Admin Aaron about it - the glitch was corrected. You are not being intentionally throttled!

                  I see that you are going for the whole enchilada - advanced.

                  OK, we will assume that this works as claimed and it should at least spin. The polarity of coil #2 depends on how it is wired - a simple test of applying a short power up to the #2 coil with the rotor magnet close to the coil will determine which mode (repulsion or attraction) is operational in your existing circuit. With that knowledge the single hall sensor can be positioned appropriately. The firing position with respect to TDC can then be tuned in.

                  The tuning process for the coil firing will be a bit time consuming and it would be useful to understand where the trigger point begins and ends with respect to the fixed Hall switch and magnet positions as the wheel is rotated incrementally. You will then have the degrees of rotation where the power circuit is active.

                  As usual with these devices, there is a lot of time spent mucking around to get it to at least spin.

                  You will get it!
                  Yaro
                  Yaro

                  "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hall Sensor positioning

                    Hi Yaro,

                    I can confirm that my cores are all producing inward facing South poles so 'attraction' mode is the way to go. However my Hall sensor seems to have quite a wide angle of response in that it triggers about 15 degrees before TDC and switches off about 15 degrees after. I am therefore going to need to move it quite a bit towards the approaching magnet as indicated in the two attached diagrams I have drawn to show the issue.

                    Alternatively, I am quite drawn to the electronic option of setting a time delay from the moment it switches on, and then an off time (hence a pulse width) using the 555 timer chip. Could be a neat option but I will need to bounce some design attempts of a few people

                    Jules


                    Hall Sensor 'On' Angle 2.jpgHall Sensor 'On' Angle 1.jpg
                    'Consciousness came First'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Jules,

                      The triggering on 15 degrees before TDC should be about right for attraction mode. But it should switch off exactly at TDC !!

                      With 5 magnets on the wheel you have 72 degrees of rotation between pulses. With 15 degrees of pulse duration you would have a duty cycle of 15/72 or 20.8%. This is about ideal.

                      In order to trigger off at TDC there are several ways it do it. A 555 timer based circuit will work correctly at only a particular RPM because it is time based and not distance (degrees of rotation) based.
                      Gary Hammond,

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gary Hammond View Post
                        Hi Jules,

                        The triggering on 15 degrees before TDC should be about right for attraction mode. But it should switch off exactly at TDC !!

                        With 5 magnets on the wheel you have 72 degrees of rotation between pulses. With 15 degrees of pulse duration you would have a duty cycle of 15/72 or 20.8%. This is about ideal.

                        In order to trigger off at TDC there are several ways it do it. A 555 timer based circuit will work correctly at only a particular RPM because it is time based and not distance (degrees of rotation) based.
                        Hi Gary

                        Yes I concur with your reasoning. Is there a way to make a distance based option using a Hall sensor? If not then I guess the rotor will ‘stagger’ up to its optimum speed and sit in that speed niche, one determined by tinkering to find the maximum rotor speed.

                        Jules
                        'Consciousness came First'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Jules,

                          Originally posted by JulesP View Post
                          Hi Gary

                          Yes I concur with your reasoning. Is there a way to make a distance based option using a Hall sensor? If not then I guess the rotor will ‘stagger’ up to its optimum speed and sit in that speed niche, one determined by tinkering to find the maximum rotor speed.

                          Jules
                          I did it by using two hall switches at different movable locations. Both halls have to be on at the same time in an electrical series arrangement to bias the FET on for the required degrees of rotation (duty cycle). Moving both in the same direction changes the timing. The first one to switch on is also the first to switch off and determines the cut off point (turn off at TDC for attraction mode). The second one to switch on determines the point in the rotation that conduction occurs to turn the FET on (beginning of pulse 15 degrees before TDC).

                          If the magnet spacing on your wheel is really accurate at 72 degrees, you can use any two separate magnet stacks with a hall sensor at each one. One hall would start the trigger event and the other would end the trigger event.

                          Another, possibly easier solution, would be to run in repulsion mode by just inverting both the magnets in the wheel and the hall sensor. This would place the south poles of the coils and the south poles of the magnets toward each other, and the hall would trigger from the south pole of the magnets at TDC. You may still have to experiment with the location of the Hall to get it to switch on at exactly TDC. The duty cycle is not as critical when running in this mode and may if fact be shorter due to the hall being triggered by the south pole.

                          P.S. - An easy way I found to check the timing (turn on point) is to use an old inductive automotive timing light. It strobes to let you see exactly at what point in rotation the timing is.
                          Last edited by Gary Hammond; 09-03-2018, 11:27 AM. Reason: add PS
                          Gary Hammond,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jules,

                            Nice diagrams depicting the Hall positioning and it would certainly worth the effort to move the Hall to that second configuration just to see if it all works.

                            Gary's recommendation is pretty dead on for an SG and his twin Hall arrangement is pretty simple and effective from a control standpoint.

                            I am unfamiliar with how distance sensitive Hall devices are with respect to the magnetic field strength needed to trigger them. Also, one can describe that the magnet pole strength as a function of distance as being similar to a parabola - if indeed that is the case, then moving the Hall sensor away from the magnet face, ie. increasing the gap distance, should reduce the length of on time.

                            You are just about there,
                            Yaro
                            Yaro

                            "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Yaro,

                              I am unfamiliar with how distance sensitive Hall devices are with respect to the magnetic field strength needed to trigger them. Also, one can describe that the magnet pole strength as a function of distance as being similar to a parabola - if indeed that is the case, then moving the Hall sensor away from the magnet face, ie. increasing the gap distance, should reduce the length of on time.
                              The hall Jules is using is positioned with the back face toward the north poles of the rotor and the sensing face toward the south poles of the magnets. I suspect the north poles are turning the FET on and then when the coils are conducting the south poles of the coils are keeping the FET turned on too long.

                              The distance from the magnet does have some effect on how long the hall is triggered on. But it has to be close enough to trigger reliably each magnet pass. The width of the magnet more greatly affects the on time than the distance away does.
                              Gary Hammond,

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X