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Permanent Magnet Motor

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  • Permanent Magnet Motor

    Question for John Bedini

    Did you actually build and run the PM motor shown in your lab notes, or is this just based on theory?

    I tried building one scaled to your drawing and was unable to get it to run. Of course I probably didn't use the correct parts and didn't know what the relative magnet strengths should be. I just use neos that looked in prportion to your drawing and threw it together with aluminum base and rotor. All the fasteners are steel, and the ball bearing is steel.

    It cogs to the position shown in my photo. If it is spun, it does coast for a short time (with some drag) and then stops in the same position again.

    just curious, thanks
    Gary Hammond

    Permanent Magnet Motor.jpg PM Motor.jpg
    Last edited by Gary Hammond; 08-24-2012, 09:44 AM. Reason: add information and photo
    Gary Hammond,

  • #2
    Hi Gary,

    If you would permit I have a few comments on your design based on what I understand from the original drawing.

    A) Your stator is not positioned correctly, remember that it is acting as an attractor for your magnets on your wheel. Once the attraction is at its highest at the nub where the stator north sits it then nudges over and the two north's repel in the direction shown by the arrow.
    B) The wheel should be non magnetic as you want the magnetic lines of force to interact with the stator not the rotor components.
    C) The magnet strength would indeed have an effect of the function of the whole unit as the strength would dictate the interaction of the stator and the stator magnet itself.

    I'm no expert tho just my observations.

    Tinker with the stator position and you may notice a few things if you need a jumping of point.
    It is we who must seek the Truth of the universe, to walk the path of enlightenment.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi ZeusZcid,

      Thanks for the reply.

      A) I tried every relative position imaginable between the attractor and rotor. It produced the best results in the position shown in the photo. As the attractor became more parallel to the rotor edge, the rest position would shift the rotor clockwise, with the magnet farther away from the "tipping point".

      B) The wheel is aluminum (non magnetic), but the bearing and screws are steel. I'm sure the steel is part of the problem.

      C) Being geo magnets, I think the magnetic fields are way too strong for the device. I tried scaling the size of the magnets and geometry as near as I could to the drawing and came up with 1/2" square rotor magnets and 1/2" x 1" stator magnet. The only magnets I could find at the time with these dimensions were neos. And the stator magnet may be too strong in relation to the rotor magnets. Since it's partially shunted by the attactor, I assume it has to be stronger, but I don't know how much stronger?

      I may try a plexiglas rotor with stainless steel needle point shaft and brass bearings. I also have since found some SmCo magnets in both 1/2" x 1" and 1/2" x 1/2" by 1/4". I can stack the smaller ones to get 1/2" x 1/2". I will glue the magnets to the rotor and use only stainless or brass fasteners to get rid of all the steel except for the attractor. I also thought about enlarging the total size to help eliminate any interaction between the individual magnets on the rotor. Of course it would then not be to the true scale of the drawing.

      This is why I wanted to know if it has actually been built, or is only a drawing based on theory. I really don't know if the relative dimensions in the drawing are actually to scale or not. And I don't know if any more magnets could be used with a larger rotor. It just caught my attention , so I decided to try it based only on the drawing. If it "really works" I think it would make a neat conversation piece to show off in the house!
      Gary Hammond,

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Gary,

        Well it looks like you are way on your way to cracking it. I can only imagine that a device like that as most magnetic devices, needs a lost of tuning and balancing and the lot. Have you read any of the work by Howard Johnson?? I am sure a lot of the answers as to how to get the machine to work would be found from his work. I did have one idea that might work or give you something to think about. I though that perhaps the stator arm should be held in one spot when in attraction mode but when the two north poles of the stator and rotor repel a spring should allow the stator to be pushed back a little and then attracted again into position by the next coming magnet. Tho I am sure you have already thought of that.

        I do think tho that it is a good idea to make the machine bigger if you do have such powerful magnets. Maybe even try using only two magnets and make the rotor in one instance very light and free running first and then try a free running heavy wheel that acts as a flywheel. Just some thoughts.

        I really do hope you get it to run That would totally convince me of everything I have been learning these past few years.

        Is there a chance you can upload a video of you running it?? I am a visual person that needs visuals to understand things. Words unless very descriptive mean almost nothing to me. I can take engines and computers and all sorts of things apart in my minds eye and see the various interaction but not when they are just words on a page. So I may be able to help understand the problems you are having if I could see the machine actually running.

        Have a good day,

        Zeus
        It is we who must seek the Truth of the universe, to walk the path of enlightenment.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi guys,

          4 years ago I tryed that design also, made a iron ramp very similar to yours, and I used neos too. But in my case it didn't work, it stoped pretty much in the same position that yours.

          But in the John Bedini B.A.S.E DRAWING it says "NON LINEAR MAGNET STRUCTURE", (that could mean asymetrical fields in the magnets)

          How to make asymetrical magnets? well for what I have read, the barium magnets can be "tuned", and it seems that there are some new tech magnets that come asymetrical from factory. And then is the beloved "magnetic shielding" but, im just throwing ideas.

          best,

          Alvaro Hernandorena

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AlvaroHN View Post
            Hi guys,

            4 years ago I tryed that design also, made a iron ramp very similar to yours, and I used neos too. But in my case it didn't work, it stoped pretty much in the same position that yours.

            But in the John Bedini B.A.S.E DRAWING it says "NON LINEAR MAGNET STRUCTURE", (that could mean asymetrical fields in the magnets

            How to make asymetrical magnets? well for what I have read, the barium magnets can be "tuned", and it seems that there are some new tech magnets that come asymetrical from factory. And then is the beloved "magnetic shielding" but, im just throwing ideas.

            best,

            Alvaro Hernandorena
            Alvaro,

            look for and read the RADUS boot patent and Howard Johnsons work on magnetic gates...
            Tom C


            experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Tom tnx for the reply, I am the same Alvaro from Yahoo monopole2

              I have read the radus boots, and watched a couple of videos from people showing the theory working, but I have never tryed a motor with the concept, but the output would be much larger than the input (energy needed to flip the magnets) right....

              A very long time ago a saw some pdfs about creative science that looked full of crap actually, but there was some patent very similar to radus concept, modifing magnet poles with coils wound on the magnets, I think that was under "flyn something"

              best,

              happy to see this new forum, what happend to yahoo groups?

              Comment


              • #8
                Neo magnets can be shaped with a beltsander and lots of time!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AlvaroHN View Post
                  Hi Tom tnx for the reply, I am the same Alvaro from Yahoo monopole2

                  I have read the radus boots, and watched a couple of videos from people showing the theory working, but I have never tryed a motor with the concept, but the output would be much larger than the input (energy needed to flip the magnets) right....

                  A very long time ago a saw some pdfs about creative science that looked full of crap actually, but there was some patent very similar to radus concept, modifing magnet poles with coils wound on the magnets, I think that was under "flyn something"

                  best,

                  happy to see this new forum, what happend to yahoo groups?
                  flynn parallel path motor. I believe it was bought by bosch and can be found in theire latest motors and controllers. the yahoo groups are closed.
                  Tom C


                  experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThankyouBedini View Post
                    Neo magnets can be shaped with a beltsander and lots of time!
                    and lots of highly toxic dust to go with it. dont waste your time or your health please.
                    Tom C


                    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      flynn from "flynn parallel path motor" is now at qmpower.com !
                      working for everyone with money.. visit the page, look for the prices/awards.. military..,
                      but not seen any consumer products,
                      there is a windmill shown.. better performance than others on market.. but no description where to buy..
                      so my hope is, that the chinese copycats copy that PPMT to spread that stuff into our world..
                      the concept is easy.. but precision is needed.. so it nothing for builing by homeboys

                      BOSCH had bought that? i didnt know.. do you have references/links for that information?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrRonsen View Post
                        flynn from "flynn parallel path motor" is now at qmpower.com !
                        working for everyone with money.. visit the page, look for the prices/awards.. military..,
                        but not seen any consumer products,
                        there is a windmill shown.. better performance than others on market.. but no description where to buy..
                        so my hope is, that the chinese copycats copy that PPMT to spread that stuff into our world..
                        the concept is easy.. but precision is needed.. so it nothing for builing by homeboys

                        BOSCH had bought that? i didnt know.. do you have references/links for that information?
                        not directly, but I saw a video from bosch on their latest drives and controllers, and it looked just like the flynn descriptions, perhaps they licensed it from him. I have zero nada no documentation!!

                        Tom C


                        experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Few cents...

                          Hi People,

                          My first post here and just my 2 power 2 cents.

                          IMO#1 the device described in the first post is very 'witty' indeed.
                          ----------------------
                          IMO#2, if you just want a 'proof of concept' it is no need to use strong magnets.
                          Very good bearings (these from scavenged old computer disks are OK).
                          Not too strong magnets.
                          Some 'subtile' flywheel effect.

                          I use 1/2 centimeter cubic neo magnets glued on a CD/DVD and some 'added flywheel' (= another wood ring). Yes, this device seems to be able to self run (should I just add the 'replusive' (fifth magnet)). But it does not...
                          ----------------------
                          IMO#3, you should be 'Blessed by the Gods/Universe' to figure out how to tune this apparatus.
                          No 3055 (for ex. ) ) transistors are the same. No magnets are the same. You can get more efficiency out of a circuit just by changing a 3055 (for ex.) transistor. Can't you?
                          ----------------------
                          IMO#4: I would be more confident in a device that can change its own 'geometry' while running.

                          I can propose you 2 vids (sorry if this is not new):

                          "v gate magnetic motor different config self explanating "
                          v gate magnetic motor different config self explanating - YouTube

                          and

                          "Selfrunning Working Permanent Magnet Motor"
                          Selfrunning Working Permanent Magnet Motor - YouTube
                          ---------------------
                          Now, my intend is not do discourage anybody (including me, BTW) to continue these kinda
                          experiments.

                          Very Best hag gwella gourhemennou a-berz
                          Jean-Yves

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Gary,
                            Just to answer your question, I did not build it Ron Cole did. Ron had to fiddle with it to get it to go
                            And when he did we were excited but it was just the type of device that cogged around very slow.
                            But when he died all that disappeared from his workshop. I do not know what happened to the model.
                            John Bedini
                            My homepage: http://johnbedini.net

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ThankyouBedini View Post
                              Neo magnets can be shaped with a beltsander and lots of time!
                              Uh-oh! Oh dear me! Not a good idea at all!! I have heard that neodymium is an extremely toxic heavy metal. For example if the magnet broke and a shard pierced your skin, that would be a serious medical issue. Breathing the dust, and having neodymium dust all over your shop/lab/house, could not possibly be a good thing. Please do not do this and please do not recommend it to others either. Some things that are "possible" are just not worth doing.

                              Marcia

                              Comment

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